Miniature Handbook: Balance Problems for Regular D&D

[Remathilis]

The reprinting of Favored Soul in CD got me thinking...

for a while, I've been debating if the four new classes in the MHB (Favored Soul, Healer, Marshal, Warmage) were balanced for regular D&D. My concerns...

Favored Soul: good atk, all good saves, spont divine casting, energy resist, wpn foc/spec, and wings, is this too good compared to a cleric, or another spontaneous divine caster (mystic/evangelist)?

Healer: Is this thing too weak compared to a cleric and his spont/heals?

Marshal: Better buffer than the bard?

Warmage: My god, does this thing have ANY limitations? How does it learn spells (like a sorc, wiz or clr?) Does it blow sorcerer away?

General: what are your issues, concerns, experiences, and advice/tweaks to allow these classes into a pretty vanilla D&D game?

 

[Creamsteak]

On Favored Soul: I like it. The only thing that doesn't fit to me is "why does this class have a good reflex save?" For Favored Souls of a nimble god, it makes some degree of sense, but it still seems odd to me. I still allow this class though, out of the book.

On Healer: Unicorn companion? I really just don't like the healer class. I do like some of the new spells like Revivify that the Minis Handbook contains, but this class isn't one that I like.

On Marshall: Don't really like it. It seems to "out of game" to me. I think that it is an interesting class to compare to the bard, but I just don't appreciate it. I don't use it in my game.

On Warmage: Neat class, but I'd rather it have had a d8 hit die and drop the sudden metamagic. I think the wording on Warmage Edge needs some adjustment, honestly.

 

[MerricB]

On Warmage: Neat class, but I'd rather it have had a d8 hit die and drop the sudden metamagic. I think the wording on Warmage Edge needs some adjustment, honestly.

Miniatures Handbook Errata: - http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mi/20031030x

Warmage: The bonus from the warmage edge special ability applies only to spells that he casts as a warmage, not to those he may have by virtue of levels in another class.

Was that what you were looking for?

Cheers!

 

[MerricB]

Favored Soul: good atk, all good saves, spont divine casting, energy resist, wpn foc/spec, and wings, is this too good compared to a cleric?

It's a good class, but the loss of versatility and domains is painful.

Healer: Is this thing too weak compared to a cleric and his spont/heals?

It heals a lot better than a Cleric; but it's not a good PC class. A great class for a cohort, though.

Marshal: Better buffer than the bard?

Possibly, but it can't do most of the other things a bard does. They're quite different in how they work.

Warmage: My god, does this thing have ANY limitations? How does it learn spells (like a sorc, wiz or clr?) Does it blow sorcerer away?

If you play a sorcerer who only takes combat magic, then you're probably better off playing a Warmage. If, on the other hand, you like having spells like comphrehend languages and dimension door, the Warmage sucks.

Translation: If your game has more than just combat in it, the Warmage is nowhere near as good.

Cheers!

 

[dren]

Favoured Soul: I love it! Their reduced spell choice is very fair, but Creamsteak's comments about the Reflex save is quite accurate.

Healer: Ugh, way too combat oriented for my tastes. The only way I can see this working is as a dual classed option, I think a monk/healer would be a great way to go.

Marshal: I think this would be a fun class to play at higher levels, when commanding groups of soldiers. I haven't had any players express interest and I understand why: buffing others combat abilities at the cost of your own isn't much fun.

Warmage: Simple and sweet - a sorcerer specialized in blasting things. If you play a combat oriented game, it's too powerful as it has the sorcerer's spellcasting capacity with more than double their options. In campaigns with less combat campaigns it's actually more balanced as you can only blast things and not much more than that.

 

[johnsemlak]

I'm running a campaign where the main Cleric-type is a favored soul. Not having access to the entire Cleric spell list is a major disadvantage. It's something I've had to really adjust to in running the campaign. You just can't assume that they have access to certain spells.

Other player's keep asking the Favored Soul :"Why don't you cast X-spell"
He replys "I'm not a Cleric!!"

 

[Silveras]

Ok, I'll toss in my 2 cents.

General: Well, I think the key to keep in mind is what level of power you like in your game. If you already find the Cleric to be "a little too good", for example, you may find things in the Miniatures Handbook need some toning down. If, on the other hand, you view the Cleric as fine and the Sorcerer "a little weak" (as I do), you may find the materials "just right".

Favored Soul: I have not allowed the Favored Soul in my games, and I am unlikely to do so. I have been flirting with the idea of making all Divine Spellcasters spontaneous casters (which I think better reflects divine assistance), and the Favored Soul just doesn't fit the mold I am looking for. The gradual energy resistance and eventual wings make it more of a transformational class (like many PrCs), and I generally do not like the idea of transformation as a class feature (I prefer to make it the point of becoming an Epic character).

Healer: I agree with MerricB here, in theory; I have neither played nor seen one played yet. From the appearance, it does seem more like a "Cohort-ready" class.

Marshal: I have created a Marshal character, specifically a Paladin/Marshal for a PBeM in the Forgotten Realms. I am currently waiting for the party to find him, so I can begin play. The party has a Bard, but he usually uses his spells rather than his bardic music, so I don't see the Marshal part of my new character as supplanting that. The other thing to consider is that the Marshal's "buffing" is fairly concentrated - on specific tasks. The Bard's inspirational abilities are, I think, a bit more generalized. I am actually looking forward to using the Marshal abilities with the other characters.

Warmage: Again, I agree with MerricB and with Dren. The Warmage outshines a Sorcerer in a straight energy hurler role. In some ways, it can be viewed as a military-trained specialist Sorcerer. Since I try to provide a variety of challenges in my adventures, versatility usually trumps raw power in my world. As a result, the Sorcerer is a bit weak for my world, and needs a little boost (I am now using the Battle Sorcerer from Unearthed Arcana as my standard Sorcerer). The Warmage is a class I do not allow as, again, it does not fit the flavor I am working on.

 

[Silveras]

I'm running a campaign where the main Cleric-type is a favored soul. Not having access to the entire Cleric spell list is a major disadvantage. It's something I've had to really adjust to in running the campaign. You just can't assume that they have access to certain spells.

Other player's keep asking the Favored Soul :"Why don't you cast X-spell"
He replys "I'm not a Cleric!!"

In the campaign where I am bringing in the Paladin/Marshal, I have been playing a Ranger/Shaman (Green Ronin's Shaman's Handbook). The Shaman's model (more Domains in exchange for additional taboos) is a good one for keeping the spell selection decent. Still, the essence is specialization, and I am pleased that I have the luxury of having other divine casters (a Cleric, a Barbarian/Druid) in the party to cover the spells my character doesn't have. As a result, my character has been able to "specialize" in the Spirit-oriented spells of the Shaman, and make good use of them.

Still, since my character only knows cure minor wounds, he is not great at healing, and sometimes misses that aspect.

 

[Troll Wizard]

Favored Soul: good atk, all good saves, spont divine casting, energy resist, wpn foc/spec, and wings, is this too good compared to a cleric, or another spontaneous divine caster (mystic/evangelist)?

Too weak as Cleric and too weak as a Fighter, the dual stats compound the problem. Playing one from 1st to 5th so far and as the party's only healer, beyond healing spells I only use divine protection, bless, and silence spells. After the first round of combat I end up running around trying keep everyone alive. So I am lucky to get "1 round" to use my oh so wounderful "fighter" feats per combat. 1 or 2 levels of figjhter and 4-5 levels of cleric probably would have been a better path.

Healer: Is this thing too weak compared to a cleric and his spont/heals?

No one seems interested, too boring for the melee-oriented players and too role focused/restricted for everyone one else.

Marshal: Better buffer than the bard?

Not reallly interesting to myself or to anyone I know.

Warmage: My god, does this thing have ANY limitations? How does it learn spells (like a sorc, wiz or clr?) Does it blow sorcerer away?

I have seen two played so far (1-3 died, 1-6), great for combat but for "essential' magical support spells it reallly keeps coming back and in biting the party in the arse.

 

[Creamsteak]

Miniatures Handbook Errata: - http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mi/20031030x

Warmage: The bonus from the warmage edge special ability applies only to spells that he casts as a warmage, not to those he may have by virtue of levels in another class.

Was that what you were looking for?

Cheers!

That's the first part. The second bit is that the "A single spell can never gain this extra damage more than once per casting" is awkward. In the examples they use for this, the damage for a fireball gains a flat +x damage bonus. The magic missile damage, however, is a +x bonus to one missile. The rule is clear, but I still think that it could have been better shaped, such as allowing the Warmage to split the +x damage up over multiple missiles. If I had a +4 bonus to damage, it seems more intuitive to have two magic missiles at 1d4+3 than to have one at 1d4+1 and 1d4+5. My modified warmage (no sudden metamagic feats, better proficiencies, gains arcane spell failure resistance instead of armor use ability, d8 hit die) uses my modified version of the Warmage Edge ability.