Minion Fist Fights

[hong]

You're seriously going to tell me that it's metagaming for my character to notice that out of a horde of apparently identical demons who look like this:

"Identical"?

 

[Hussar]

"Identical"?

Of course they're identical Hong. Didn't you know that any two creatures with the same stats must be indistinguishable? Despite the fact that this appears no where in any rule, it must be so.

 

[hong]

Of course they're identical Hong. Didn't you know that any two creatures with the same stats must be indistinguishable? Despite the fact that this appears no where in any rule, it must be so.

Actually, if Andor is saying anything, he's saying that any two creatures with different stats must be indistinguishable. Because, you know, the 70 legion devil minions clearly look exactly the same as the 30 war devil leaders mixed in with them.

Or something.

 

[Piratecat]

Guys, don't dogpile someone because you disagree with them. Sarcasm isn't necessarily the right tool for having, you know, actual discussions.

 

[Andor]

Actually, if Andor is saying anything, he's saying that any two creatures with different stats must be indistinguishable. Because, you know, the 70 legion devil minions clearly look exactly the same as the 30 war devil leaders mixed in with them.

Or something.

So, are you suggesting now that minions do have some kind of distinguishing characteristic that allows one to visually seperate them from their fellow monsters who aren't made of soap bubbles? I'm finding it hard to keep track of your argument.

 

[hong]

So, are you suggesting now that minions do have some kind of distinguishing characteristic that allows one to visually seperate them from their fellow monsters who aren't made of soap bubbles? I'm finding it hard to keep track of your argument.

You have legion devils. They are minions.

You have other kinds of devils. Who are not minions.

Why do you assume that all devils look the same?

 

[Andor]

You have legion devils. They are minions.

You have other kinds of devils. Who are not minions.

Why do you assume that all devils look the same?

I seem to recall that the article on the Pitfiends mentioned Legion Devils who were not minions. I can't confirm that though because WotC wants me to sign in to view what was once free content. In any event it leaves aside my question of whether or not it is possible to tell a 9th level Orc minion with 1 hp from a 7th level Orc brute with 194 hp.

Or an 8th level Angel of Valor with 88hp from a 21st level Angel of Valor with 1.

 

[hong]

I seem to recall that the article on the Pitfiends mentioned Legion Devils who were not minions. I can't confirm that though because WotC wants me to sign in to view what was once free content. In any event it leaves aside my question of whether or not it is possible to tell a 9th level Orc minion with 1 hp from a 7th level Orc brute with 194 hp.

You tell the orc minion from the orc brute in exactly the same way as you tell the 1HD orc warrior from the 15HD orc barbarian.

Or an 8th level Angel of Valor with 88hp from a 21st level Angel of Valor with 1.

Why do you assume that all angels of valor look the same?

 

[Lizard]

Do you seriously believe that monsters like woolly mammoths will be minions?

Why *couldn't* they be? Seriously.

Let me address this from a 4e-positive perspective. If we accept that "minion" is a dramatic condition, not a physical aspect, then, there's no reason ANY creature can't be a minion. The heroes are in a time-lost valley filled with dinosaurs, cavemen, and mammoths, evolutionary timelines by damned! (PLUG: See "GURPS:Lands Out Of Time". By me. End Plug.) The strange mummy-lich in pyramid at the end of the valley is completing his ritual. To keep the pesty heroes away, he casts a plot-device spell which causes the creature of the valley to rise up and stampede! The heroes must fight their way through the onrushing beastial hordes in order to reach the villain before he completes his fell rite!

Under those circumstance (and please don't tell me that's not a common enough plot conceit in the type of literature D&D, and especially 4e, aims to emulate), why SHOULDN'T wooly mammoths be minions?

They're doing what minions do -- provide a roadblock for the heroes.

Have hordes of equally minion cavemen fighting alongside the heroes, along with a non-minion Primitive Princess and someone riding a tyrannosaur. The minion-class creatures slaughter each other with abandon, the heroes carve their way through the horde, getting battered but not dying.

If the idea of wooly mammoth minions is too much, you haven't drunk enough 4e kool aid. By the design ethos of 4e, it makes perfect sense to me.

 

[BryonD]

And any rules that let me do that? Well, gimme please.

So you never achieved that with 3E?
That's kinda sad.