Minion Fist Fights

[Wormwood]

No, the problem is that you're assuming that "minion" is a characteristic of the identified NPC, rather than a characteristic of the relationship between the identified NPC and the PCs.

What Cadfan said.

 

[Daniel D. Fox]

It is entirely ridiculous to assume that a missed burst or blast that does half damage would not kill a minion.

I can already see that I'm going to have to houserule this, until WotC can provide any better reason NOT to.

 

[I'm A Banana]

They get into a fight with each other. When some guy hits another guy with a chair or beer mug, does that guy automatically die?

Doesn't 4e have nonlethal damage at all?

I mean, there's a lot of bar fights where normal people go down in one solid punch. I've really got no problem having that happen. They're usually not dead, but they're not in "fighting shape" anymore, and I'm pretty happy with 0 hp representing "no longer a credible threat." Nonlethal damage represents that pretty okay.

No, the problem is that you're assuming that "minion" is a characteristic of the identified NPC, rather than a characteristic of the relationship between the identified NPC and the PCs.

Your problem is in assuming that this is a "problem."

It's not.

It's a playstyle preference.

You can't "fix" it.

 

[Wormwood]

Doesn't 4e have nonlethal damage at all?

The attacker determines whether the last blow kills or KO's, right?

If that's not the rule, it should be.

 

[Cadfan]

Your problem is in assuming that this is a "problem."

It's not.

It's a playstyle preference.

You can't "fix" it.

No, it wasn't. It was a flaw in comprehension.

It was a "playstyle preference" in about the same way that this is: "I don't understand how the 4e Ranger works. I can't find anything at all about masks, silver revolvers, training your horse, or having native american sidekicks."

Nice try though.

 

[Mort_Q]

It is entirely ridiculous to assume that a missed burst or blast that does half damage would not kill a minion.

It is entirely ridiculous to award a kill to a PC that missed their attack roll.

 

[Cirex]

After the first encounter at the Raiders of Oakhurst module, I told my players that minions only had 1 HP, but high attack ratings and a fixed amount of damage, for simplicity.

So, after 5 minutes of joking about it "So he tripped and died" "He sneezed and died" "Hey, if he gets hit for too long by the Sun, does he die" and etc.

Ah well...

 

[scrubkai]

It is entirely ridiculous to assume that a missed burst or blast that does half damage would not kill a minion.

I can already see that I'm going to have to houserule this, until WotC can provide any better reason NOT to.

Sorry but I have to disagree with you here...
Typically in 3.x when I run a large fight with large amounts of minor bad guys (minions), if someone drops a high level AoE on them, they all get a save.
Failed save: They join the dead pile.
Made Save: They stay on the board badly wounded. (At this point they are one shot kills for anyone, including any weak AoE attack someone has)

So it normally takes one AoE attack to clear 75% of the minor characters from the board. And it takes a second AoE to fully clear the board.

I find that it makes the players feel like they are very powerful, while still offering the sense of risk that a few of the minor bad guys might survive and close on the squishy mage/psion.

I find it interesting that 4E is doing something close to this as part of their core rules.

Of course I also have minor bad guys run if their leaders/too many of them are slain and I'm going to guess that isn't going to be part of the core rules.

 

[ShinRyuuBR]

It is entirely ridiculous to award a kill to a PC that missed their attack roll.

Is it? Ridiculous to me is if a minion would have 15 HP, if you cared to track it (defeating the whole purpose of labeling it a minion), while you deal 40 damage on a hit, 20 on a miss, and because minions only take damage on a hit, you can miss him 3 times, which would deal 60 points of damage, but it doesn't die.

 

[fuzzlewump]

It is entirely ridiculous to assume that a missed burst or blast that does half damage would not kill a minion.

I can already see that I'm going to have to houserule this, until WotC can provide any better reason NOT to.

I think the idea is that minions don't explode when you barely tap them, it's that a well placed hit from a PC will always kill them. A miss, including damage made on a miss, isn't defined as a well placed hit, so it doesn't kill them. The real issue is that they are balanced on only being killed when an attack beats their defenses; if damage on a miss killed them they might have to give minions more HP at higher levels and that ruins the point of minions all together. If you house rule anything, just take out minions.