Minion Fist Fights

[hong]

No. What I mean is, I don't care about the world if it doesn't make at least a tiny, itty bitty iota of sense. If it is some Bizzaro World version of Unbreakable where the vast majority of people have never been cut by knife a or been brained by a mop handle (because they would EXPLODE if they did), whereas I who have actually survived falling in the shower AM THEREFORE THE STUFF OF LEGEND... then I guess I just don't give two craps about the world.

People have been cut by a knife and brained by a mop handle. But if it takes place offstage, then it doesn't matter, and you can assume that what happens in real life would also happen in the game world. What only matters, and what the mechanics are meant to handle, are situations where people move into the spotlight; ie, when they interact with the PCs. In this paradigm, questions like "who would win, a commoner or a housecat?" simply do not have an answer. Well, unless either the commoner or the housecat is a PC, which is explicitly something outside D&D's design parameters.

I mean, if you can't "get into it" at all... to what extent does it actually constitute "fantasy"?

The metaphor to use is not "the game takes place in a world". It is "the game takes place on a stage set in a world".

All the world's a stage, and all the PCs and NPCs merely players, you know?

 

[Vendark]

It's weird that I mr hat of siulation is fighting against you forgist narrative yahoos for the middle ground now.

Yeah, my favorite game is HERO 5th, so calling me a forgist narrative yahoo is pretty ridiculous.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

So if you're cut by a knife in a bar fight, does that do 1 HP of damage or doesn't it?

Depends, 1e D&D might not even consider that a hit, for instance.

 

[Korgoth]

Depends, 1e D&D might not even consider that a hit, for instance.

Why do you say that? If I could wrap my brain around that one, perhaps it would help.

 

[Vendark]

This whole "'Minion' means a relationship to the PCs thing" is a total red herring. Minions can fight minions, like when the town guard minions fight the orc warrior minions.

Are the PCs there? If so, the minions are still defined by how they relate to the PCs. They're either the schmos who the PCs kill in one hit, or the schmos the PCs couldn't save from being killed in one hit.

If the PCs aren't there, then why are you running the combat at all?

 

[Fanaelialae]

Why do you say that? If I could wrap my brain around that one, perhaps it would help.

In D&D, taking a life threatening wound is represented by someone going to 0 hp. If the DM narrates a tiny little cut, then it should never take me to 0 hp (unless that tiny little cut is somehow lifethreatening). No matter how much damage an attack deals (being clubbed by a giant's club for example), it doesn't create a life threatening wound unless it takes them to 0 hp. The reduction of hp is a representation of the character getting tired from dodging a deadly attack, or perhaps simply that they've used up a bit of their luck. It doesn't matter that an uber-attack deals 1000 damage so long as you have at least 1001 hp; you survived it intact and are at the worst, a little worse for wear.

Hence, a minion who is struck by a minor knife wound might reel backwards a little from the pain, but has not taken a life threatening attack, and therefore does not lose any hp. They just happen to be the guy unlucky enough that if a volley of accurate arrows flies towards them and a non-minion, the minion takes an arrow through the chest whereas the other guy gets off with a flesh wound (or is just a little worn out from dodging all those arrows, depending on the narration).

 

[Alratan]

Are the PCs there? If so, the minions are still defined by how they relate to the PCs. They're either the schmos who the PCs kill in one hit, or the schmos the PCs couldn't save from being killed in one hit.

This breaks down as soon as the possibility of the PC's having access to mind control magic occurs. Suddenly, you have minions fighting minions in quite ludicrous sudden death switches, which also happens to dictate that PC controlled minions use quite peculiar tactics, given that they are essentially glass cannons (relatively).

 

[ryryguy]

This breaks down as soon as the possibility of the PC's having access to mind control magic occurs. Suddenly, you have minions fighting minions in quite ludicrous sudden death switches, which also happens to dictate that PC controlled minions use quite peculiar tactics, given that they are essentially glass cannons (relatively).

How does it break down? They are now simply the shmoes who are the PC's puppets who die in one hit. What's the difference?

 

[pweent]

So if you're cut by a knife in a bar fight, does that do 1 HP of damage or doesn't it?

It does not. When I am cut by a knife in a bar fight, it slices the skin open, causing pain, blood loss ranging from minor to potentially fatal depending on which blood vessels are severed, risk of infection, and maybe injury to vital organs if it's a deep wound in the correct place.

I don't have hit points.

Conceptually, neither should a minion.

I'll ask it again: does "A minion does not have hit points. Instead, a minion is incapacitated by any successful hit which does damage," make the concept less conceptually troublesome?

Minions add a new rule to model the game world. Use them when you want characters who will go down with a single hit. If you want a bar room brawl full of characters who will take more than one punch, don't use minions.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

Why do you say that? If I could wrap my brain around that one, perhaps it would help.

Most humans can survive more that six stab wound if they don't hit vital spots.

0-level human in 1e have 6 or less hps.

A "non-vital" shot must be capable of being fraction hp or not always reducing hit points.

A miss in D&D is an attack that "does damage".
"doing Damage" is reducing hit points.

Therefore Some knife wounds are misses.