Minion Fist Fights

[Kitirat]

I would say the utter ridiculousness of this discussion is well beyond the 'some' level of simulationism you are describing. If you are seriously taking the minion rules to be actual game world physics, instead of modelling a literary and cinematic action sequence trope, well, I really don't know what to say. This 'some' level of simulationism doesn't mean 'the rules and regulations of the game systems are empirical laws of the universe that everyone in the campaign setting is aware of as functional aspects of their reality.'

I really, honestly fail to see how the minion rules so mortally wound everyone's suspension of disbelief in any situation in which they aren't overanalyzing (as Hong would say, 'Thinking too hard about fantasy'). The examples of minions dying from a punch in the nose and using blowguns to divine someone's exact HP. are pretty much testament to the absurdity being exercised here.





JohnSnow, you deserve some sort of forum medal. You really have a knack for eloquently, succintly and clearly expressing your point in an argument.

Agreed, good work man.

Ok so without reading the 1000 posts on how a minion dies to a punch, here is what I've been doing and it works pretty well.

In NPC situations and where minions are 4 or more levels higher than the PC's, I grant them their consitution score + 1/2 level modifer in hit points. It is on every monster sheet and works out fine. When they are in combat with the PC's they are fodder and easily struck down by our heroes. Yes I am a simulationist at heart. But why two different systems?

The minion does not know he is a minion in the sense of his health when compared to the heroes. However in combat, his morale and capablity to match the power of the heroes is such that they are "beyond his capabilities" he can choose to engage them, but the cost is likely his life. As a real life example, I can likely get in a fist fight and last a hell of a long time, but against a trained soldier, he could likely snap my neck in short time. In normal for myself situations I am ok, but when I'm way over my head, is there much point in tracking my potential?

People will always complain what they do not like, and attempting to change their minds, especially gamers, is unlikely. But for those looking for a practical solution, try it out, I have a feeling you will be comfortable with the outcome.

See ya,
Ken

 

[Wormwood]

JohnSnow, you deserve some sort of forum medal. You really have a knack for eloquently, succintly and clearly expressing your point in an argument.

Hand me a petition and I'd sign it.

 

[The Little Raven]

<Sheer Genius>

"Check out the big brain on Brett!"

 

[BryonD]

You mis-characterize the non-simulationist argument.

Now there is some yummy irony.

 

[Lizard]

It's crazy in the fact that why is this happening in your game?

I'm running a "Seven Samurai" scenario and the peasants are out fighting to protect their village from the demon hordes, while the heroes take on their leader?

There's a demon horde ravaging the countryside, and I want a good sense of how many villages they can tear through before being weakened?

I'm writing the history of my world, and I want to know if it's sensible to have an army of average soldiers hold off a demon horde for...a day? A week? A month?

Also, as said before, the minion isn't the BBEG... it's the grunt soldier. Sure your army of peasants takes down a minion... Awesome! Good for them! Now the other 3 (at least) minions tear the rest up... Oooooh they only lost half their guys before the other 3 were taken out? Great... Cheer on... until the Epic Skirmisher roles up and takes the other 50 out.

That's fine. I want to be able to figure out the numbers if it matters.

So what's a wizard vrs a fighter? Same thing as a minion vrs a skirmisher. Sure it's metagame.. all the RULES are metagame. If they aren't you're playing some kind of campaign modeled after Order of The Stick. (Not that that wouldn't be awesome in a box.)

Why are some people fighters and others commoners?

Why am I a tubby computer programmer and someone else is an Olympic boxer?

Would it be easier to except if the Minion had 10 hp and your fighter did an average of 10 hp per attack, and hit well over 50% of the time?

You'd still be tracking dead or not dead... just with a lot more useless paperwork. (Kind of like my job.)

Yes, it would be, because then I wouldn't have to deal with things like minions can't be bloodied, don't benefit from healing surges, and can be killed by peasants with stale muffins 5% of the time.

 

[hong]

That's what worries me. I've been playing D&D since the red box set. I will be saddened if the game moved in a direction I cannot follow.

Oh well.

 

[hong]

I'm running a "Seven Samurai" scenario and the peasants are out fighting to protect their village from the demon hordes, while the heroes take on their leader?

They fight until the heroes take out the leader, and the survivors congratulate them. Or if the heroes run away, the peasants all die.

There's a demon horde ravaging the countryside, and I want a good sense of how many villages they can tear through before being weakened?

Make it up.

I'm writing the history of my world, and I want to know if it's sensible to have an army of average soldiers hold off a demon horde for...a day? A week? A month?

Make it up.

That's fine. I want to be able to figure out the numbers if it matters.

You can make it up. It's not hard. People have been writing fanfic for years, without the aid of tables and charts and arrows on the back of each one to be used as evidence against us.

Yes, it would be, because then I wouldn't have to deal with things like minions can't be bloodied, don't benefit from healing surges, and can be killed by peasants with stale muffins 5% of the time.

See, if you just made it up, you wouldn't have to deal with things like this.

 

[hong]

Ditto.

When morning comes and the cat food dish is empty, they can be quite...insistent. I've determined I must be at least 3rd or 4th level based on my cat survival skills alone.

Your level needs calibration.

 

[hong]

Yep. Fact.

Nope. Fact.

 

[BryonD]

You can make it up. It's not hard. People have been writing fanfic for years, without the aid of tables and charts and arrows on the back of each one to be used as evidence against us.

And yet some people are willing to pay WotC for the privilege to keep doing it.