Minions and hps

[cbbakke]

I really like the concept of the minions and I think they help provide a very cool feel to the game with a hero wading through mobs like a knife ethrough butter.

I was wondering what people thought of the idea of minions having a hp number that is higher then one.

My first thought is 1/2 their level+1. So a level 10 minion would have 6 hp cap. If you do 6 hp in one shot you ckill it, if not it takes no damage.

The other thought was 1/2 level +5. 10th level minion would have 10 hps then with the same one shot of 10 or more kills it.


Reason I think this might be a good idea is cause a lot of powers make minions too easy to kill. example the warrior power that does 1d10+1 to any mob by him at the start of their turn for the entire encounter.

thoughts?

 

[DracoSuave]

Minions are supposed to be easy to kill, it takes 4 hits to take out four minions, which is whereabouts normal monsters should be taken out (give or take). Coincidentally, four minions = 1 normal monster's XP.

It's almost like it's by design.

 

[Khuxan]

How about you give minions hit points equal to the damage their basic melee attack does?

 

[Anguirus]

The designers played with minions a lot. I think that for most of the playtest lifecycle they had small numbers of hit points.

The designers aren't perfect, but they were considerate enough to playtest this idea for you and didn't like it.

Think of it this way. The difference between a minion and a normal monster is that a minion is supposed to 1) fall down upon being hit and 2) be incredibly simple to run. Giving HP to minions is contrary to design feature 2 in that suddenly you are tracking anywhere from 4 to 40 extra sets of HP. It also complicates feature 1 in that a PC with +2 to hit swinging at a minion with AC 13 no longer has a 50% chance of killing the minion...he has a lower chance of doing so because he might roll low damage.

So minions really ought to have 1 HP or else they complicate your life and slow down combat (and so should not be used at all). Some people think minions should have more than one HP for reasons of verismilitude; I recall reading a complaint that a level 21 legion devil could trip over a log and instantly die. I find this concern foolish, to say the least, for reasons that I hope are extremely obvious.

 

[Talaeden_Denthiir]

How about a compromise. Instead of going against the original design of NOt having TOO much bookkeeping on minions, have minions go down like this:

1) 1 hit = wounded minion

2) 2 hits = dead minion

3) 1 crit = dead minion

So, with this houserule, wounded minions add to the verisimilitude, while at the same time still cutting down on bookkeping.

 

[Nifft]

The last time we had this thread, the winning house rule was:

- Minions have a damage threshold (DT)
- Minions have one extra bit of information: bloodied or not
- If a minion is bloodied, any damage kills it.
- If a minion is not bloodied, damage under its DT makes it bloodied; damage over its DT kills it.
- Temporary HP add to DT, and aren't otherwise tracked.

DT should be (level/2) + 5, or so. Brute minions can get more; artillery & skirmisher minions can get less.

Cheers, -- N

 

[James McMurray]

Our (as yet untested) house rule is:

• Minions do not always die from a single hit. It takes one hit per tier to kill a minion, or one critical hit (no matter what tier they are). Attacks which deal damage on a miss will still count as a hit when they miss, and as two hits when they score a hit. Also, additional damage sources, such as sneak attack and warlock's curse, count as a separate damage source. Examples:

The fighter hits a minion three times, cleaving into the minion next to it each time: both die.
The fighter crits a minion with cleave: it dies, the other one he damages is one step closer to death.
The warlock hits a minion with Eldritch Blast and triggers Warlock's Curse: the minion has taken two hits and is now one from death.
The wizard fireballs a bunch of minions: Since it does damage on a miss, it'll count as a hit no matter what. Any minions hit by the attack will take two wounds. Any crits rolled will destroy that minion.
The cleric traps some minions inside a Fire Storm: they die at the start of their second turn (one hit when it lands, plus one hit every time they start their turn in it).
The artificer hits a minion with Burrowing Projectile: it's almost guaranteed to die because the initial damage plus one round of ongoing and another round of ongoing from the aftereffect would count as three hits.
The artificer misses a minion with a natural one for Runic Resistance: No change in it's status.

To avoid the massive amounts of condition tracking this could add, any status effects caused by an attack will instead count as a hit. For example, Crushing Titan’s Fist deals damage and immobilizes those hit. Minions in the area would take two hits but not be immobilized.

 

[James McMurray]

Forgot to mention that we're currently at the low rungs of the epic tier, so most minions will take three hits to kill, and some may take only two.

 

[keterys]

While I'm someone who suggested the damage threshold / bloody method, the rule I offered to my players (if they want) for my own games:

Remove the existing minion rule, change to 'Minion Weakness
If a minion is hit for any damage, it dies. If a minion takes damage without being hit, it is not killed, but it becomes bloodied and dies the next time it takes any damage in any way.'

So, automatic damage (auras, ongoing, damage shields, etc) would bloody then kill minions, damage on miss abilities (like dailies, hammer rhythm, reaping strike, etc) would bloody then kill, etc.

Why: Because it feels unfair and unrealistic to players for their half damage or damage on miss abilities to never work on minions, while it feels cheap or too easy for automatic damage effects to kill them. Plus it allows minions to live in the "bloodied" design space with everyone else.

 

[cbbakke]

like I said, mininos dying fast creates some cool seens but theere are so many powers that do aoe constant damage as encounters taht make minions useless. my theory would be if a minions had a 5hp if you do 5 damage in a shot you kill it. If you do less then that nothing happens