Minions: What Bugs You?

[Rechan]

I went with "Other".

The Minion system isn't completely ironed out. Things like the Zombie Rotter, etc, the minions aren't fixed properly. You also have issues of damage. New minions look better, but still. Also figuring out what the proper value of minions are; are they 1/4 monster? Are they 1/10? 1/16? What?

I am hoping that DMGII has revised rules for making minions.

 

[hvg3akaek]

High-level monsters with 1 hp
Possibly fixed by giving minions some standard DR. 1/2 or 1/3 of their level might work, so that the upper-level guys won't die when you sneeze at them.


Automatic damage automatically kills a minion
I was considering a rule that you only could damage a minion with a hit (instead of it being a miss doesn't damage a minion). it is sort of an extension of the same idea - auto damage no longer effects it, but things like cleave or splash damage (which require you to hit first) will still be good. I do like thecasualoblivion's free-save idea, too!


Either way, I wouldn't adopt both of the above, as that would make them a little too beefy.

 

[doctorhook]

For the most part, I like minions. My only peeve is that, RaW, they die from automatic damage, which makes them mega-lame when exposed to it. Minions are supposed to be easy kills, but not free kills; they shouldn't be able to die without either a roll versus their defenses or a roll to save themselves.

My fix for this problem has been that any minion exposed to autodamage gets to roll a saving throw against it; if it passes, the autodamage doesn't kill it. Any other effects apply normally.

EDIT: Apparently I'm not the only person to use that solution.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

High-level monsters with 1 hp
Possibly fixed by giving minions some standard DR. 1/2 or 1/3 of their level might work, so that the upper-level guys won't die when you sneeze at them.


Automatic damage automatically kills a minion
I was considering a rule that you only could damage a minion with a hit (instead of it being a miss doesn't damage a minion). it is sort of an extension of the same idea - auto damage no longer effects it, but things like cleave or splash damage (which require you to hit first) will still be good. I do like thecasualoblivion's free-save idea, too!

For what its worth, splash damage from a hit(like Cleave) doesn't give the minion a save in my houseruled game.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

My DM threw 12 minions at us recently in a single battle. My level 11 Blood Mage used Enlarge Spell to turn Blood Pulse into an Area Burst 4. That left 3 minions...

 

[Cadfan]

I'm only bothered by automatic damage.

In an environment where automatic damage is rare or minor or difficult to use, its no big deal. Cloud of Daggers? Doesn't bother me in the least. So it kills one minion- not a big deal.

But in an environment with a great deal of automatic damage? Say, a feytouched warlock that teleports about, automatically killing all adjacent minions? Or a warlock using certain magic items? In those situations minions don't work so well.

I also don't think minions work well in all minion encounters, but I think that has more to do with encounter design than anything else. I think minions work best as garnish rather than a main course.

 

[Jack99]

I voted other. The PHB minions had too low damage-output, and overall, I must say that I prefer some randomness. So my minions deal damage equal the basic attack of their type of creature. Has been working well so far.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Put me in the group that really doesn't like the 4E rules for minions (or mooks or plebs or whatever they've been called throughout the ages). They give the PCs a perceived power that they have no right to. The feel they give a campaign is the complete and utter antithesis of what it is I enjoy about our hobby and the games I play in.

To expand:
- Why should that orc go down in one hit whereas that other "identical" one takes at least 3 rounds of team effort?
- Why can my low level character mow through all these creatures that are physically bigger and stronger than he? If he is so damn skillful, why does not this skill exhibit itself more dramatically against non-minions?
- It takes away from the achievement of a higher level character having earned the right to take down a bevy of weaker but legitimate foes.
- To my mind, it is the ultimate in metagaming which is a style I do not prefer. The expectation of possible minions amongst the enemy shifts the tactical focus and direction of the group when by rights it should not.
- In player terms, I can't stand minions (or 1hp balloons). They feel false and contrived to me in play. They are a simple band-aid to some of the issues in previous editions of the game... and one that simply does not stick for me.
- The 1hp Balor! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

However, I can understand that others love this type of play and more power to them... I just don't.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I went with "Other".

The Minion system isn't completely ironed out. Things like the Zombie Rotter, etc, the minions aren't fixed properly. You also have issues of damage. New minions look better, but still. Also figuring out what the proper value of minions are; are they 1/4 monster? Are they 1/10? 1/16? What?

I am hoping that DMGII has revised rules for making minions.

Revised Rules? Having rules or guidelines at all would be nice. I mean I could guess something from the MM1, but the MM2 seems to change that to make minions a little "tougher" or rather more dangerous.

For the auto-damage thing, I am considering giving Minions a kind of "Resist" value, maybe 1/2 level. If automatic damage is below that value, it doesn't kill. Of course that devalues Cloud of Daggers notable at higher levels (you will never deal 15 points of damage with your Wisdom bonus alone...)

But actually, I think I won't implement any house rules, unless it proves a problem in the game I run (and not just in theoretical exercises.)

 

[Rhuarc]

I really love minions, but as most of the other posters have already mentioned, automatic damage makes them just too worthless, that's why they get an increasingly harder save against these effects as well.
The second thing is that they usually present not enough of a threat regarding their XP value. If you don't create the encounter especially around the minions, and often have tight corridors where their masses don't help much, it's just too easy to take out most of them before they were able to dish out some damage or help other monsters.