Alpha Polaris
First Post
An easy question, almost everything is in the title. If a fighter with Cleave strikes a mirror image with a melee attack, making it disappear, is he allowed to make an additional attack ?
Mirror Image vs. Cleave
- Thread starter Alpha Polaris
- Start date
Storyteller01
First Post
I think the FAQ said yes to this, but...
It's a touchy subject here, I suppose.
It's a touchy subject here, I suppose.
Artoomis
First Post
dcollins said:
It does weaken Mirror Image somewhat, but it fits in with cleaving right through one thing to another.
Note, though:
srd said:
It's entirely possible that only one image is within reach. The images all take up their own 5' squares.
Of course we, like many groups, don't play it that way and simply do the random number thing every time one swings at a Mirror Imaged mage and effectively have all images in one square (house rule for simplicity). Played that way the Cleave thing is more powerful.
dcollins said:
Agreed.
Mirror Image figments are not creatures, hence, should not be targeted by spells which target creatures (e.g. Magic Missile). Nor should they be cleavable since they are not creatures.
"Enemies attempting to attack you or cast spells at you must select from among indistinguishable targets. Generally, roll randomly to see whether the selected target is real or a figment. Any successful attack against an image destroys it."
Just because you select the figment with your spell does NOT mean that your spell actually can target the figment.
"If you ever try to cast a spell in conditions where the characteristics of the spell cannot be made to conform, the casting fails and the spell is wasted."
"If you deal a creature enough damage to make it drop ..."
Just because you can destroy a figment with your sword does not make it a creature. It makes it a target.
It's unfortunate that those who write the FAQ sometimes cannot be bothered to actually read what is written in the rules.
Storyteller01
First Post
It does make sense though, and it keeps with the spirit of the spell. If Cleave is about hitting something so hard that you blow through into another target, then hitting a target with no substance just makes it easier. The whole point of the spell is to create alternate targets. If the only problem is semantics (figment vs creature vs target), then it's something I can overlook, especially with it's other uses.
It's ineffective against fighters with cleave/great cleave, but it's great against ranged attacks, monk grapplers, and rogues (which image do you flank?).
EDIT: or if CLeave represents any number of circumstances involving quick recovery.
It's ineffective against fighters with cleave/great cleave, but it's great against ranged attacks, monk grapplers, and rogues (which image do you flank?).
EDIT: or if CLeave represents any number of circumstances involving quick recovery.
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Storyteller01
First Post
KarinsDad said:
Depends on your interpretation. There are several, but few can be negated by stating that striking an image eliminates extra attacks. Mass combat is about killing a target quickly and moving to the next one (several sword styles have multiple opponent techniques, all of with would be represented by the Cleave/Great Cleave feats). Whether it hits the ground or disappears in a puff of smoke is inconsequential in the long run; the fighter will still pick a new target.
My two bits...
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Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Storyteller01 said:
A. Let's say I have Great Cleave, and am surrounded by eight goblins. I drop one with an attack, and can Cleave each of the others as long as I don't fail to drop one with each attack roll, right?
B. Does the answer change if I'm blind?
C. Does the answer change if instead of eight goblins, it's eight incorporeal shadows? D. If it's shadows, and I'm blind?
E. Now, if there's a mirror image in the square beside me, and I'm blind, and I attack that square, and make the miss chance for being blind, and strike the mirror image, do I get to Cleave?
F. What if there isn't a mirror image in the square beside me, and I'm blind, and I attack that square, and make the miss chance for being blind? Do I get to Cleave?
If the answers to E and F are different, what creates the difference?
-Hyp.
Sejs
First Post
KarinsDad said:
Most people tend to make that leap based on the name of the Feat, but then again, it'd be kind of hard to do the whole 'blow through' routine with say a rapier, a mace, or your fist, so take it how you may, heh. All the Cleave feat essentially denotes is that you're quick on the recovery after a blow.
Anyway, as to the issue of Mirror Image/Cleave - yep, it works just fine as far as I know, and I have absolutly no problem with that. Mirror Images are just dinky little illusions that poof when you hassle 'em. Against people without Cleave, it's solid gold. Sure it's got one weakness that someone who is properly trained can exploit, but ... it's only a second level spell.
