Mirror Image vs Touch Spells

[frankthedm]

The attack hits, popping the figment, the figment was not real so the spell does not discharge.

 

[Hypersmurf]

No this gets into valid target. For most spells a figment isn't a valid target.
The touch attack destryoys the mirror image. The now disipated image is not a valid target. The charge is held.

Valid target has nothing to do with it. If I'm holding the charge on a spell that targets 'creature touched', and I pick up a bottle of wine, the spell discharges and is wasted: "If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges."

Of course, I don't consider a figment to be 'anything or anyone', so I wouldn't have the spell discharge.

-Hyp.

 

[RigaMortus2]

The attack hits, popping the figment, the figment was not real so the spell does not discharge.

But if the spell does not discharge, then was the attack successful? Because only a successful attack can remove a figment.

I would consider that, for the attack to be successful, you would need to succeed on the touch attack roll and discharge the spell.

Actually, come to think of it, I don't know if you'd ever be able to pop an image using a touch spell, unless you can voluntarily discharge the spell when you make the attck (rather than it discharging automatically when you touch anything or anyone).

 

[frankthedm]

But if the spell does not discharge, then was the attack successful? Because only a successful attack can remove a figment.

IMHO I would consider that, for the attack to be successful, you would need to succeed on the touch attack roll and discharge the spell.

Actually, come to think of it, I don't know if you'd ever be able to pop an image using a touch spell, unless you can voluntarily discharge the spell when you make the attck (rather than it discharging automatically when you touch anything or anyone).

IMHO, The Hit itself, is what kills the figment. If the spell was not very specific that the figments are not real, then I would say the image could cause the spell to discharge. Because while the first part of http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#TouchSpellsinCombat is not specific, if you are "holding the charge", then the discharge happens when you touch anything or anyone. The figment, not being real, is neither.

If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges.

 

[amethal]

Can you destroy an image created by a mirror image by poking it?

Presumably that's all you are doing with a touch spell if it doesn't discharge.

 

[frankthedm]

Can you destroy an image created by a mirror image by poking it?

Presumably that's all you are doing with a touch spell if it doesn't discharge.

Yes. This is what happens when a grapple or trip attack fails due to hitting a Mirror image.

 

[phindar]

Maybe we're looking at this the wrong way. Instead of reading "figments are unreal" to mean that figments aren't real, maybe the author meant something like, "figments are totally awesome."

That's one of the minor hinks with figments, with a spell like Silent Image you get a Will Save when it is interacted with. So say the illusionist makes a Silent Image of a cabin, and a guy walks up to it. "Interacting" with a cabin pretty much means knocking on the door, trying the handle or something like that. But your hand is going to go right through it, because it's only a figment, which means there's no real point in making the Will Save. It's not a big deal but its a case of "You get a Will Save right up until the point you touch it, when you realize its not real."

My only other real complaint is I think the illusions spells should be listed as Image, Silent; Image, Minor, and so on just so they'd be easier to find in the book. They'd all be right in the "I" section. Kind of like the Summon Monster spells, you could just have Illusionary Image 1-5 or 1-9 or whatever.

 

[lukelightning]

I'd say you retain the charge. Just as if you had a one-use poisoned dagger or something...the image would be destroyed but the poison wouldn't be used up.

 

[Sir Falke]

I'd say you pop the image, and retain the spell. As you touch it, you realize its an illusion. You keep the charge, but wasted a touch attack, which is still very good enough for the defender.

 

[Notmousse]

This is why the Monk FoBs the image'd mage after getting a free move action from the Marshal.