D&D 5E Mislead spell and illusion disbelieve

[Shadowdweller00]

The image remains for the duration. Inspection will not reveal it as an illusion (as there as no passage stating such), but an intelligent creature who makes a physical attack against the image - or who witnesses a physical attack against the image - will probably recognize it as an illusion, at least long as the image remains within line of sight. The image remains as visible, colorful, and opaque as ever even after an intelligent creature realizes that it's an illusion.

 

[ElderElementalEye]

I would rule that the Mislead double works as a Major Image, or any other illusion spell (Int save to disbelieve).
After all, there is a disbelieve paragraph in the 7th level spell Project Image, which is a more powerful form of Mislead : no invisibility, but a 500 miles range and the same ability to project your senses into the illusory double.
I think they just forgot to put in the disbelieve paragraph in the Mislead description.

 

[CapnZapp]

The image remains for the duration. Inspection will not reveal it as an illusion (as there as no passage stating such), but an intelligent creature who makes a physical attack against the image - or who witnesses a physical attack against the image - will probably recognize it as an illusion, at least long as the image remains within line of sight. The image remains as visible, colorful, and opaque as ever even after an intelligent creature realizes that it's an illusion.

Thank you for providing your take.

However, what I'm asking is why the designers left out the bits that regulate this for other illusions.

Or if they've said it was an accidental omission?

 

[CapnZapp]

I think they just forgot to put in the disbelieve paragraph in the Mislead description.

That makes sense.

Anyone know if they've discussed the spell?

Anyone care enough to ask on Twitter? (That already have an account so I don't have to sign up just for this)

 

[Shadowdweller00]

Thank you for providing your take.

However, what I'm asking is why the designers left out the bits that regulate this for other illusions.

Or if they've said it was an accidental omission?

Presumably because the designers did not intend clauses such as "becomes transparent on successful investigation check" to apply to the spell. Mislead is an advanced illusionary spell (5th level) supposedly balanced with spells like Wall of Force. It's hardly a unique case of an illusion either - compare the Trickery Domain's Invoke Duplicity ability. Or for that matter Mirror image or Mirage Arcane (as distinct from the less powerful Hallucinatory Terrain).

Project Image has more vulnerabilities - but is also an incredibly powerful scouting ability that can appear anywhere within 500 miles and lasts all day long. It is not a combat spell.

 

[CapnZapp]

Presumably because the designers did not intend clauses such as "becomes transparent on successful investigation check" to apply to the spell.

But how do the spell work then? Or not the spell, but how do I run NPCs that are subject to the spell?

Say I notice you (your misleading double) walking into the room.

Is the chance of noticing something wrong 0%?

Even if I shoot an arrow straight through you, or try to shake your hand?

And if so, what does it mean? My DM telling me "No you can't act as if you know Shadowdweller is an illusion just because he just walked right through a table? Perhaps he caught momentary ghosting, that's all. Or he walked around the table, you just need more sleep."

 

[Shadowdweller00]

But how do the spell work then? Or not the spell, but how do I run NPCs that are subject to the spell?

Say I notice you (your misleading double) walking into the room.

Is the chance of noticing something wrong 0%?

Even if I shoot an arrow straight through you, or try to shake your hand?

And if so, what does it mean? My DM telling me "No you can't act as if you know Shadowdweller is an illusion just because he just walked right through a table? Perhaps he caught momentary ghosting, that's all. Or he walked around the table, you just need more sleep."

Hmm...thought I had explained my views on this already, but I see my explanation was incomplete and poorly worded. The answer is: DM discretion. But as far as my opinion goes, any attempt to physically interact with the image would pass through and give a sentient creature good reason to suspect an illusion. (Which is how I treat any other image spell that does not specify or suggest otherwise). The difference being - that one cannot merely Investigate (with an ability check) the image from halfway across the room to determine that it is an illusion; and that the image does not become transparent on "disbelief". Thus arrow attacks, hand shakings, and observing the image walking through a table would all provide solid evidence to a sentient observer that the image is either an illusion or that the image's subject is incorporeal. (Unless maybe the physical interaction / attack is not clearly seen due to obscurement, distance, or being too fast for the eye to reasonably see...such as a bullet fired from a modern firearm). But in the absence of this sort of thing or any other clear evidence, there is no chance for the observer to suspect that something is wrong.


(And for the record, despite any possible authoritative-sounding language on my part, this is not at all a case where the text and/or intent behind it is so fantastically clear that there is only One True Interpretation).

 

[CapnZapp]

So...

Nobody has asked WotC why the language present in other spells is absent here?

Nobody shares my trepidation in running Mislead as, say, Major Image, despite how the spell specifically does not say what the other spell is saying?

Nobody is having any issues with Mislead? Nobody is even casting Mislead?

 

[Inglorin]

Nobody shares my trepidation in running Mislead as, say, Major Image, despite how the spell specifically does not say what the other spell is saying?

Major Image says thing about disbelieve in order to let the illusion become transparent. Mislead doesn't need this. Everyone is allowed to say "Well, I don't think this thing is real..." or "I better look for the invisbilbe caster!", but the illusion remains present and stable. I would even allow the caster to let the image react to stimuli in order to fool the observers. Such as letting the illusion evade a missile attack by evading or something like this. I would charge his reaction, though. But that is non of the spell's business and much too situation specific to be relevant in the description.

All the spell says is that there is no automatic way to discern the image as an illusion. And that is completely acceptable in my book.

 

[Flamestrike]

I doubt a spell called Mislead would reveal itself as soon as a person looked at it. That wouldn't be very misleading at all.

heh