Mithral Armor - Proficiency

[SolitonMan]

Page 284 of the DMG in the description of mithral : "Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light." Only seems complicated if you're going spend too much time parsing words and thinking about it. I never even considered it an issue until I saw people discussing it on the boards. Always seemed obvious that mithral breastplate is light armor, and mithral full plate is medium armor.

 

[Jhaelen]

Always seemed obvious that mithral breastplate is light armor, and mithral full plate is medium armor.

Yep, because it IS obvious. For some reason in this thread I only see the posts of people agreeing about this...

 

[sgaff24]

While I agree with pretty much everyone here on this topic let me play devils advocate for a second.

Proficiency is not just the ability to wear and move in the armor. I think it also is the ability to put it on and to maintain it. I have no experience with armor but full-plate looks really hard to put on correctly, isn't that why knights usually have squires to help them put on armor? Another thing to consider is repariing all of the dents that get put into a piece of armor after every battle. This post might be out of the scope of the topic but it kind of makes sense. Why do I need to have the light armor proficiency to be able to wear a chain shirt, don't I just put it over my head and put my arms through the sleeves? Is part of the proficiency feat knowing how to take care of the shirt so it does not rust with a week a hard work and sweat? I have seen what sweat can do to steel.

I don't know just some ramblings I thought of while reading this.

 

[Theroc]

While I agree with pretty much everyone here on this topic let me play devils advocate for a second.

Proficiency is not just the ability to wear and move in the armor. I think it also is the ability to put it on and to maintain it. I have no experience with armor but full-plate looks really hard to put on correctly, isn't that why knights usually have squires to help them put on armor? Another thing to consider is repariing all of the dents that get put into a piece of armor after every battle. This post might be out of the scope of the topic but it kind of makes sense. Why do I need to have the light armor proficiency to be able to wear a chain shirt, don't I just put it over my head and put my arms through the sleeves? Is part of the proficiency feat knowing how to take care of the shirt so it does not rust with a week a hard work and sweat? I have seen what sweat can do to steel.

I don't know just some ramblings I thought of while reading this.

If proficiency wasn't just wearing it properly, then wearing non-proficient armor would place wear and tear on the armor, and the RAW would likely have mentioned SOMETHING about non-combat related penalties besides attack/armor check penalties.

 

[risner]

In 3.5, a PC with Medium Armor Proficiency is considered proficient with mithral full plate. It's a common houserule to go the other way, though.

The RAW is unspecific enough to conclude what it means. The RAW can mean it does grant proficiency (if proficiency is read to be a limitation) or to not grant proficiency (if you interpret it to not be a limitation but rather a requirement.)

In short, there is nothing in the DMG/PHB to cover this question. It is entirely a DM call. If you wish for hints, the FAQ suggested a DM rule that it grants proficiency.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

In short, there is nothing in the DMG/PHB to cover this question. It is entirely a DM call. If you wish for hints, the FAQ suggested a DM rule that it grants proficiency.

There are many, many other "hints" that it works like that (see upthread). (Functionally. The way it actually works is not that there's any proficiency granted, it's just that the armor functions as a category lighter for terms of proficiency.)

For what it's worth, I personally don't think it should count for the purpose of proficiency -- and Steve summed up my rationale, though I also think it just makes mithral Too Good -- so I'm not fond of the 3.5 rule, and I'm glad Pathfinder's explicitly going the other way.

 

[Starbuck_II]

There are many, many other "hints" that it works like that (see upthread). (Functionally. The way it actually works is not that there's any proficiency granted, it's just that the armor functions as a category lighter for terms of proficiency.)

For what it's worth, I personally don't think it should count for the purpose of proficiency -- and Steve summed up my rationale, though I also think it just makes mithral Too Good -- so I'm not fond of the 3.5 rule, and I'm glad Pathfinder's explicitly going the other way.

Is the Gamma version out?

Because in Beta, Celestial Armor still makes it light armor. Same as Full plate of Speed (becomes meduim). Evlen Chain is there (light armor).

Seems like Pathfinder didn't change a thing. Unless I missed something...

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Seems like Pathfinder didn't change a thing. Unless I missed something...

You missed a post Jason B. made wherein he stated that the final version of Pathfinder would explicitly spell out the "doesn't count for proficiency" thing.