Mithral Armor - Proficiency

[Shadaraman]

I'm speaking (as I said) of Core book rules. Not crap books.

You may have missed it, but he did mention the DMG (a core book, unless I'm very much mistaken) in his list of examples. And I'd hardly consider MIC a "crap book."

The 3.5 DMG contains 3 examples that I see: Elven Chain, Mithral Full Plate of Speed, and Mithral Shirt.

Each of these specifies that it is considered one step lighter than the base armor (medium for the full plate, light for the others). There are no qualifications on this; it doesn't say "for the purpose of movement" or anything like that. The armor is flatly considered lighter.

So, am I reading that completely wrong? Are there counterexamples somewhere (in the core books, preferably)?

 

[Starbuck_II]

Does Mithral Shirt count? Chain shirt is naturally light so I'm not sure if you can have lighter than light.

But I appreciate the support of examples: I totally forgot about Fullplate of speed was meduim in all ways.

 

[Runestar]

The only drawback I can think of for such a rule is if you have taken the armour specialization feat (heavy) from PHB2. Your fighter normally wears fullplate (getting the dr 2/-), but you find that you cannot upgrade to enchanted mithral fullplate without losing the benefits of said feat (since it is treated as medium, not heavy armour).

Otherwise, it can only be a benefit. Barbarians and warblades rejoice!

 

[Vegepygmy]

You may have missed it, but he did mention the DMG (a core book, unless I'm very much mistaken) in his list of examples.

Don't bother arguing with Kask about this. He's been confronted with the evidence before (see this thread), and just resorts to logic-defying mental gymnastics (epic Tumbling, really) to avoid the rational conclusion.

 

[Herzog]

Granted, all books after the DMG list mithral armors as one less for everything. So designers sure liked thast "suggestion".

Nope. It actually lists the items. If you quote the exact text you'll see that your statement is false.

I'm speaking (as I said) of Core book rules. Not crap books.

@Kask:
The only book 'after' the DMG not considered a 'crap' book as you state, is the MM.
Considering the referred material 'crap' does not make the statement false.

All published books after the DMG containing mithril armor list their mithril armor in the armor tables as one category lighter.
The DMG does NOT have an armor table like that, (because) it lists the armor as part of the magic item section.
The DMG does not specify whether the armor is considered one category lighter for the purpose of armor proficiency.
The FAQ suggests it should be considered one category lighter for the purpose of armor proficiency.
The splatbooks list the armor as one category lighter for the purpose of armor proficiency.

Those are the facts. Whether you include the FAQ and/or splatbooks in your official ruleset or not, nowhere is it stated that the mithril armor should NOT be considered one category lighter for the purpose of armor proficiency.

 

[Kask]

Don't bother arguing with Kask about this. He's been confronted with the evidence before (see this thread), and just resorts to logic-defying mental gymnastics (epic Tumbling, really) to avoid the rational conclusion.

Okay, give the quote from the DMG...

I'll wait...

 

[Starbuck_II]

Okay, give the quote from the DMG...

I'll wait...

You mean quote the magic items?

As a free action, the wearer of this fine set of +1 mithral full plate can activate it, enabling her to act as though affected by a haste spell for up to 10 rounds each day. The duration of the haste effect need not be consecutive rounds.
Speed while wearing a suit of mithral full plate is 20 feet for Medium creatures, or 15 feet for Small. The armor has an arcane spell failure chance of 25%, a maximum Dexterity bonus of +3, and an armor check penalty of -3. It is considered medium armor and weighs 25 pounds.

Elven Chain
This extremely light chainmail is made of very fine mithral links. Speed while wearing elven chain is 30 feet for Medium creatures, or 20 feet for Small. The armor has an arcane spell failure chance of 20%, a maximum Dexterity bonus of +4, and an armor check penalty of -2. It is considered light armor and weighs 20 pounds.

I bolded/underlined the important part.

Did you notice they are meduim heavy armor and light meduim armors?
So they require proficiency as if they are meduim/light respoecively.
Elven chain isn't even magic: just mithral further proving that it isn't magic but the special material.

That means mithral makes proficiency lessened too.

 

[Kask]

You mean quote the magic items?

Nope. The section on materials effect on armor, non-magical...

I'll wait.

 

[Theroc]

Nope. The section on materials effect on armor, non-magical...

I'll wait.

What you're asking for is a 100% clear cut direct answer. There isn't one either way.

Therefore, the result is rather up in the air, especially since so much other material seems to point in the direction of lessening proficiency requirements.

I don't really care either way, but Kask, I think it'd be a lot easier to say you want a literal quote stating the exact words, "Mithral armor lessens the proficiency required by one step" or something to that effect... rather than asking for a DMG quote and saying, "I'll wait" over and over as people present evidence.

It's obvious no one will convince you, and with your desired evidence I see why. I mean no offense, it just seems counter productive for anyone to argue that point with you as with your qualification the point cannot be proven eitherway, leaving it open for houseruling anyway.

I just don't want this to get hostile... as it seems the question's already been answered mostly.

 

[Starbuck_II]

Nope. The section on materials effect on armor, non-magical...

I'll wait.

Wait, so in everyway the DMG suggest and shows examples that it is lighter in everyway, but since it doesn't say it directly: you ignore it?

Isn't that like saying show me the world is round:
Even though Christopher Columbus sails around it: since he didn't directly say it was round (he still believed it was East Indies) it is still flat?