Mithral Armor

[frankthedm]

Is this a balance problem? No way!

I beg to differ. If you allow mithral to reduce proficency needed, that reduces the value of having Heavy armor proficency, which harms both paladin and cleric slightly [they tend to need to dump stat dex] and harming fighter greatly and adding power slightly to the ranger and greatly to the barbarian.

I personally think the best solution is to have Breast plate and Full plate {and those ungodly heavy splatariffic varients of full plate] retain thier normal proficency requirements. This way thoe who want to get around having to take Heavy armor proficency become the reason why Mithral Chain Mail, Mithral Banded mail and Mithral Half Plate exist.

 

[Sithobi1]

Races of the Wild has Mithral armor statted out...and says they're all actually an armor weight lighter. Doesn't that mean that regardless of what the description for Mithral says, those items are truly different? Also, Elven Chain and Mithral Full Plate of Speed say they're considered lighter...period.

 

[FireLance]

For what it's worth, Races of the Wild lists mithral medium armor as light armor and mithral heavy armor as medium armor in a table.

I personally think the best solution is to have Breast plate and Full plate {and those ungodly heavy splatariffic varients of full plate] retain thier normal proficency requirements. This way thoe who want to get around having to take Heavy armor proficency become the reason why Mithral Chain Mail, Mithral Banded mail and Mithral Half Plate exist.

While this is fine from a balance perspective, somebody is bound to point out that breastplate and full plate armor are less restrictive (lower armor check penalty) than chainmail and half plate armor respectively and complain about the inconsistency.

 

[Sejs]

That means, by my read, that for purpsoses of movement restrictions (such as barbarian movement, or rogues Evasion) or spellcasting purposes (such as for a bard) that it counts as one category lighter, but you would still need to have the abiltiy to wear the appropriate medium or heavy armor.

Is this just an unstated assumption on the part of everyone in this forum that that is the case, or is that just being left out of the arguments?

Well, first off, remember that any character can wear any armor, it's just that there are occasionally penalties that need to be accounted for. A lvl 1 wizard can put on a suit of fullplate; he'll just take the armor check penalty to all his movement related actions because he's not proficient in its use, and he'll suffer the rather hefty arcane spell failure chance if he tries to cast anything with a somatic component.

Now, as regards mithral, duskblades, etc. My stance on it works like so:

Armor made of mithral is counted as being one category lighter for the purpose of movement and whether or not it qualifies under the use restrictions of certain abilities (fast movement, evasion, some classes spellcasting, etc).

However, the feat required to be considered proficient in the armor does not change. Thus a bard could cast his bard spells while wearing a mithral breastplate, but unless he has the medium armor proficiency, he takes that breastplate's ACP to his movement related actions. Proficiency represents that you know how to move your body to work with the range-of-motion limitations imposed by a particular type of armor. Mithral makes armor lighter weight, it does not change the physical construction of the armor, however. There are still plates and chain and straps in places that if you're not familiar with, will hose you up. Those plates and chains being lighter weight doesn't mean they let your limbs move any farther.

 

[Iku Rex]

For what it's worth, Races of the Wild lists mithral medium armor as light armor and mithral heavy armor as medium armor in a table.

That's nothing new. They basicaly did the same in the DMG.

Elven Chain

This extremely light chainmail is made of very fine mithral links. Speed while wearing elven chain is 30 feet for Medium creatures, or 20 feet for Small. The armor has an arcane spell failure chance of 20%, a maximum Dexterity bonus of +4, and an armor check penalty of -2. It is considered light armor and weighs 20 pounds.

No aura (nonmagical); Price 4,150 gp.

Mithral Full Plate of Speed

As a free action, the wearer of this fine set of +1 mithral full plate can activate it, enabling her to act as though affected by a haste spell for up to 10 rounds each day. The duration of the haste effect need not be consecutive rounds.

Speed while wearing a suit of mithral full plate is 20 feet for Medium creatures, or 15 feet for Small. The armor has an arcane spell failure chance of 25%, a maximum Dexterity bonus of +3, and an armor check penalty of -3. It is considered medium armor and weighs 25 pounds.

Faint transmutation; CL 5th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, haste; Price 26,500 gp; Cost 13,250 + 1060 XP.

 

[frankthedm]

While this is fine from a balance perspective, somebody is bound to point out that breastplate and full plate armor are less restrictive (lower armor check penalty) than chainmail and half plate armor respectively and complain about the inconsistency.

Those check penaties still only tell half the story. Breast plate and Full plate provide protection mainly from fitted metal plates. IMHO Making those plates lighter does not reduce how locked together those plates are or reduce the training it take to account for the reduced mobility.

For my own game Mithral Breastplate and Mithral fullplate keep thier normal Medium and Heavy distinctions.

Light armor
Mithral Chain shirt
Mithral Scale mail
Mithral Chainmail
Medium armor
Mithral Breastplate
Mithral Splint mail
Mithral Banded mail
Mithral Half-plate
Heavy armor
Mithral Full plate

 

[Mistwell]

I think this is one of the few cases where intent is obvious. You treat them as the lighter category for all purposes unless otherwise specifically stated. It's in the DMG directly with the two items already mentioned, in Races of the Wild, and in the FAQ. All sources that have made a decision on the issue all decide the same way. There is no conflict between any sources. While it's easy to dispute an individual source, it's hard to dispute the weight of all sources agreeing. Therefore, we can safely conclude the intent.

 

[green slime]

I follow KISS: Keep it Simple, Stupid.

People tend to overcomplicate things, and this is one of those things. Its a game. Why worry?

Mithral fullplate, is medium armour. <= notice "u" in armour.

 

[werk]

Is this a balance problem? No way!

I'm with Frank on this one. Using mithril to go around a limitation that should exist is obviously an issue. If barbarians were ALLOWED to wear full plate, they wouldn't have bothered to write all that verbage about them losing abilities if they wear heavier armor. It negates a balancing factor, therefore, it IS a balance issue.

When everyone in the party is wearing mithril, you know it's cheese.

It's really not that big of a deal, but I don't allow it IMC.

 

[nittanytbone]

...Using mithril to go around a limitation that should exist is obviously an issue. If barbarians were ALLOWED to wear full plate, they wouldn't have bothered to write all that verbage about them losing abilities if they wear heavier armor. It negates a balancing factor, therefore, it IS a balance issue.

When everyone in the party is wearing mithril, you know it's cheese...

Disagree. With that reasoning, things like Power Attack and Natural Spell are cheese (no 2HF or druid should leave home without them). That Cure Light Wounds wand is cheese, because every sane party wants one (unless they can get Lesser Vigor). The Divine Power spell is cheese because every sane battle cleric memorizes it.

3.5 presents a lot of meainingless choices and gives players a ton of useless, suboptimal options to wade through (like the Acrobatic feat). Just because some options are better choices than others don't make them cheese.

Note that the barbarian IS making a tradeoff here for Mithral full plate. First off, its freakin' expensive. If you use the wealth-by-level guidelines, that's money that can't be used elsewhere, which is a significant asset. Second, it precludes using other materials. Adamantite for DR is great. Finally, it precludes wearing a light armor for optimal mobility.

Also, ironically, your ruling would ENCOURAGE what you would probably consider to be "cheese" from players. Any barbarian faced with that sort of ruling would just multiclass or "dip" into something with heavy armor proficiency -- a fighter level or two isn't so bad, and there are tons of PrCs out there, or even cleric levels for an improved Will save.

Finally, I guess if you think its necessary to nerf bards, barbarians, or rangers, so be it... Barbarians are a strong core class, but only due to rage, really (how many Barb 20 builds do you see on the optimization forums?), and is often multiclassed. Bards and Rangers are both usually considered to be fairly weak in an optimization sense. Throwing them a small bone (a few steps of AC for a TON of gold) is only going to help them catch up.