Mithral Armor

[Aaron L]

That's pretty much the bare bones of it.

You don't see a problem. I (repeatedly stated) that I don't think it's a big deal to read it that way...but it is wrong, and I don't allow in IMC.

But it isn't wrong. It's what the rules say.

Full plate is still full plate which is heavy armor, even if you make it out of feathers or aerogel. For me, it's not so much a balance issue as it is a something for nothing issue. Barbarians do not get heavy armor proficiency unless they pick it as a feat or gain it from another class. It is cheaper to get a few measley little points of AC from Dex than it is to magic-up a suit of medium armor to the same bonus...so the cost argument supports my view of mithril as cheese....probably ricotta, possibly marzipan.

(I removed the version part of my post as I realized that it was 3.5e...I don't use it personally, and had it confused with savage species, which I also do not use. Considering it is 3.5e, then the FAQ does indeed contradict the published rules...again.)

[/quote]

But it isn't cheaper, either. 3 points of enhancement bonus is 9000 gp. Mithral heavy armor is 9000 gp. So that mithral full plate is costing 10500, and the breatsplate +3 is costing 9350. It's a wash. Where is the something for nothing? I just don't understand what you're talking about, and I'm trying too.


You will be getting 2 more points of Dex bonus, but considering that that gives it nothing but the same bonus as the breastplate +3, and how much money you just spent, I really can't see how it could be getting something for nothing. It's something for 10500 somethings.


You do realize that, mechanically, mithral full plate is identical to a breastplate +3 (but cost's more) don't you?

Breastplate +3: armor bonus +8, Max Dex +3, arcane spell failure 25%, armor check penalty -3, speed 20' cost: 9350 gp

Mithral full plate: armor bonus +8, Max Dex +3, arcane spell failure 25%, armor check penalty -3, speed 20' cost: 10500 gp

What are you getting for nothing, exactly? Besides a bigger bill from the armorsmith, I mean?

 

[Quolyte]

What are you getting for nothing, exactly? Besides a bigger bill from the armorsmith, I mean?

Even though I disagree with Werk, just to play devils advocate what would the price difference be on a suit of Mith Full plate + 1 VS a Breast Plate +4.

That's where you're getting something for nothing.

 

[werk]

You do realize that, mechanically, mithral full plate is identical to a breastplate +3 (but cost's more) don't you?

That's fair? Comparing unenchanted mithril FP to +3 breastplate? Bump it up to +5 BP and +2 mithril FP at least.

Anyway, as I keep saying, it's not a big deal. It just devalues armor proficiencies, and tweaks out light fighters a little more than I like.

It's obviously up to debate, as the FAQ illustrates.

 

[Artoomis]

...
I'll just refer to the FAQ which says that your interpretation is wrong...

Actually the FAQ entry is :

D&D FAQ v.3.5 37 Update Version: 12/20/06

"The description of mithral on page 284 of the Dungeon
Master’s Guide is less precise than it could be in defining how
it interacts with armor proficiency rules. The simplest answer—
and the one that the Sage expects most players and DMs use—
is that mithral armor is treated as one category lighter for all
purposes, including proficiency. This isn’t exactly what the
Dungeon Master’s Guide says, but it’s a reasonable
interpretation of the intent of the rule (and it’s supported by a
number of precedents, including the descriptions of various
specific mithral armors described on page 220 of the Dungeon
Master’s Guide and a variety of NPC stat blocks)."

So, you see, he is most definately NOT saying anyone's interpretation is WRONG.

 

[werk]

So, you see, he is most definately NOT saying anyone's interpretation is WRONG.

Just simple.

And thanks for that, the FAQ is blocked at work and I was working from memory.

 

[green slime]

Just simple.

Exactly that: It is simple, it works, it is the expected intrepretation, and supported by precedents, and descriptions in the DMG.

Where is the problem? Some break point where +1 Mithral Breastplate is a better buy than a +4 Steel Breastplate? Yet this is an artifact of the pricing guidelines, not the actual qualities of the armour/metal/magic. Why the need to add complexity? Nothing will be gained except encouraging players chasing "the cheese" by multiclassing.

 

[GorTeX]

Where is the problem? Some break point where +1 Mithral Breastplate is a better buy than a +4 Steel Breastplate?

For me, it's not the price..that is a non-factor.

If mithral armors ARE one category lighter in all respects (despite what the DMG says), several things happen that I, personally, dislike.

Heavy Armor Specilization and Greater HAO do not help the Fighter in Mithral Full Plate

A Battlesmith who crafts his own suit of Mithral Full Plate does not get the +1/2 Sacred bonus from his class abilities
(I'm sure there are other examples of feats/class abilities that are rendered useless)

Characters with only Medium Armor Proficiency can wear Mithral Heavy Armor without penalties

Characters with only Light Armor Proficiency can wear Mithral Medium Armor without penalties.

So, the interpetation that Mithral lowers Armor Category for all purposes Penalizes characters who have some feats while giving other Characters 'virtual' feats.

I'd rather argue for an interpetation that does not change how any character's feats/class abilities work just because you make a suit of armor out of a particular special material.

 

[Diirk]

Heavy Armor Specilization and Greater HAO do not help the Fighter in Mithral Full Plate

A Battlesmith who crafts his own suit of Mithral Full Plate does not get the +1/2 Sacred bonus from his class abilities
(I'm sure there are other examples of feats/class abilities that are rendered useless)

Characters with only Medium Armor Proficiency can wear Mithral Heavy Armor without penalties

Characters with only Light Armor Proficiency can wear Mithral Medium Armor without penalties.

So, the interpetation that Mithral lowers Armor Category for all purposes Penalizes characters who have some feats while giving other Characters 'virtual' feats.

Why not just use the interpretation the books say? That is, only treat it as 1 category lighter for limitations.

So mithral full plate would still only require medium armour proficiency, but at the same time you could use it with heavy armour optimisation. Similair to the way sun blades work.

 

[Aaron L]

Why not just use the interpretation the books say? That is, only treat it as 1 category lighter for limitations.

So mithral full plate would still only require medium armour proficiency, but at the same time you could use it with heavy armour optimisation. Similair to the way sun blades work.

That's the way I handle it.