Mithril Armor and proficiency.

[Camarath]

Um, the proficiency allows one to wear said armor, that's what the proficiency gives. Medium armor is medium armor is medium armor.

Anyone can wear any kind of armor they wish whether or not they have proficiency. Proficiency allows for a type of armor's armor check penalty to only apply to Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Sleight of Hand, and Tumble checks rather than to attack rolls and to all skill checks that involve moving, including Ride.

The question is if the application of a penalty to attack rolls and to all skill checks that involve moving should be considered a "limitation". Exactly what constitutes a "limitation" is not defined in the RAW but the benefits of armor proficiency look like overcoming a limitation IMO.

It seems to me that since proficiency allows one to overcome what could be considered the normal limitations (i.e. penalties) of wearing armor it would be reasonable to allow mithral armors to count as one category lighter than normal for the purpose of overcoming those limitations associated with proficiency.

 

[Sejs]

Look at it like this - armor made out of mithral isn't any less movement restricting than normal armor of that type, it just weighs less. Someone with only light armor proficiency isn't used to having to deal with metal elbow protectors and shoulder dishes keeping their arms from moving certain ways. They're not used to dealing with having thick metal parts protecting their hips and groin that make it so you have to learn how to run a different way than you do if you're not in armor. They're not used to having metal plates encasing their wrists and fingers.

It doesn't matter that the metal isn't as heavy, it's still a skill to learn how to move in it and still be effective.

 

[Jhulae]

Might as well beat your head against a wall, Sejs.

 

[Diirk]

Look at it like this - armor made out of mithral isn't any less movement restricting than normal armor of that type, it just weighs less. Someone with only light armor proficiency isn't used to having to deal with metal elbow protectors and shoulder dishes keeping their arms from moving certain ways. They're not used to dealing with having thick metal parts protecting their hips and groin that make it so you have to learn how to run a different way than you do if you're not in armor. They're not used to having metal plates encasing their wrists and fingers.

It doesn't matter that the metal isn't as heavy, it's still a skill to learn how to move in it and still be effective.

Actually it very much is less movement restricting.. as represented by the increased dex bonus to ac and the lessened armour check penalties. If it only weighed a bit less, then it would have no benefits other than weighing less, like mithril weapons.

 

[Camarath]

Look at it like this - armor made out of mithral isn't any less movement restricting than normal armor of that type, it just weighs less.

What does an Armor Check Penalty represent if not movement restriction? And how is an Armor Check Penalty or restricted movement not a limitation?

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

What does an Armor Check Penalty represent if not movement restriction? And how is an Armor Check Penalty or restricted movement not a limitation?

So why didn't the designers simply write: "Medium armor becomes Light"? What non-limitation did they have in mind they wanted to separate out?

Clearly it would make sense for the rules to declare Mithral Medium armor becomes Light. But that is besides the point. It is not what the rules actually say.

 

[Camarath]

So why didn't the designers simply write: "Medium armor becomes Light"? What non-limitation did they have in mind they wanted to separate out?

I do not know the answers to either of those questions. There are other rules where I have asked similiar questions and not been able to ascertain any better answer than I can give you in this case. I believe that sometimes the people who wrote and playtested the rules already knew how the rules were intended to work and so did not consider how the rules would appear to those who did not know how they were intended to work and thus in some instances failed to adequately clarify them.

Clearly it would make sense for the rules to declare Mithral Medium armor becomes Light. But that is besides the point. It is not what the rules actually say.

The sentence after "Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations." says "Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light.". This sentence does not have a qualifying clause like the preceding one while it most likely is meant to clarify the meaning of the previous sentence and the fact that light armors still count as light it does clearly state that a medium armor is treated as light. I take this and the oddity of not counting penalties as limitations to mean that medium armor is treated as light for proficiency.

Maybe "medium armors are treated as light" means only with regard to movement and other limitations and the penalties associated with proficiency do not constitute a limitation but I have a hard time seeing that.

 

[Will]

Jhulae, first, relax. I was asking honest questions, not trying to be argumentative.

And you gave me exactly the answers I was looking for... proficiency has to do with the type of burden and constriction, and mithral simply changes one thing, how much the stuff weighs.

That makes perfect sense, thanks.

 

[Nifelhein]

As I see it the proficiency handles not only weight but also the actual armor parts, plates, straps and so on that it must have in order to work properly, being mithral or steel changes weight, but it still is a medium armor and needs enough and proper ways to be held in place, this in itself may be what the proficiency handles.

Those feats on armor prof. are more artificial than real, it is there more for an attempt on balçance than anything, so that is not a problem to me, mithral is intended to change the weight, this means that a character may wear a full plate and maybe not be encumbered by it and still move 30ft per round, this is what movement might address.

Abilities that require use of light armor usually rely on movement and its restrictions supresses the ability, thus the mithral chain would make it usable, others might not work that way, a ranger's restriction, for instance, is okay to be in chain shirt of mithral.

 

[Will]

I suppose one could also argue that 'heavy armor that acts like medium armor in every way' is what medium armor with +3 bonus equals, after all.