MM2 Excerpt: Adamantine Dragon question

[mevers]

The way I read it, it is pretty straight forward.

The dragon, as a Standard Action, can make 4 claw attacks and a Bite attack.

Nowhere does it say those 4 claw attacks all need to be on the same target. Therefore they can be against whoever the Dragon wishes.

The Bite attack can then be made against any other target who was not attacked by the claws.

As far as the fighter's (or other defender's) marks, any attack (claw or bite) not targeted at them will take the mark penalty (and associated Combat Challenge etc).

The thing to remember is that this is not ONE Attack with Multiple Targets, but FIVE attacks, each with their own targets. And so they resolve as separate attacks.

So yes, no matter what, the Fighter gets one Combat Challenge attack against the Dragon. Might just be better to not target the fighter at all, and take down that squishy standing next to him.

I think the confusion comes from trying to imply too much. I have found generally very little need to imply anything in 4th Edition, especially Monster Stat Blocks. What you can and can't do are usually called out pretty clearly.

Besides, making a bite attack against 'a different target' does not at all imply the 4 claw attacks all need to be made against the same target. Just that the bite attack needs to be made against a target not targeted by a claw attack.

 

[keterys]

I read it as 4 claws however you want, but the bite can't be on a claw target.

Expect significant table variation on the handling of the mark effect, but most tables I've seen have run it as _not_ triggering mark, but I suspect RAW triggers mark.

RAI... I'd actually bet is for mark not to trigger as long as one of the attacks is on the defender. But, the world may never know.

 

[Mengu]

In order for my head not to explode with timing issues, I'll just re-write such powers to suit my needs I guess. This is going into house rule territory at this point but I think I'd write this power as:

Draconic Fury (standard; at-will)
One to four targets; the elder adamantine dragon makes 4 claw attacks; Effect: the elder adamantine dragon makes a bite attack against a target that has not been targeted by a claw attack.

This might work a little differently than intended, but I think it makes it pretty clear how a mark would work, and how the attacks can be divided.

 

[fba827]

I am by no means an expert, but just my opinion ...

the way I _read it as written_ is the way baberg sees it (one target gets all 4 claw attacks, and then a second target for the bite).

The way I expect that it is _intended_ (and the way I will choose to play it unless I hear otherwise) is the way other people are saying (with the dragon choosing how to divide up the claw targets)

For the mark penalty, I agree with what everyone (i think) has said... as long as the defender is one of the targets for any of these attacks then it does not take the penalty.

I'm going to have to disagree here. The way I read the power is that you make 4 Claw attacks against a single target and then a Bite attack against a different target. I read it this way because it explicitly states "a different target" for the Bite attack, which to me implies that the first actions must be a single target.

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

It's interesting to read people's opinions on the marking issue - most seem to think the mark would not trigger.

A few months ago there was a very similar thread regarding a hydra and whether attacking multiple targets with the different heads (with 1 head attacking the defender) would trigger the mark. In it, the majority came to the opposite conclusion to that reached here.

Not that have a strong opinion one way or the other...

 

[keterys]

Actually, I thought that thread had the same result: as written it seemed likely the mark triggered, but as run by many and as likely intended* the mark didn't trigger.

* Based on the type of language used around marks and multiple attacks, suggesting the designers don't _really_ differentiate, as far as marks go, between an attack that says 'make an attack against every enemy within 2 squares' and 'close burst 2, targets enemies'