Yes, a mob would be much more useful "grappling" the opponent by restraining his ability to move and perform any kind of attack, and a few of them could then slowly giving the coup-de-grace with a dagger. But even then I'd say that the overall efficiency of the mob is reached with around 20 or so opponents, the additional ones don't seem to add anything to the speed the lone fighter is subdued (engaging a mob in close quarter would be a losing strategy in any case).
D&D 5E Mobs in 5E
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Yes, a mob would be much more useful "grappling" the opponent by restraining his ability to move and perform any kind of attack, and a few of them could then slowly giving the coup-de-grace with a dagger. But even then I'd say that the overall efficiency of the mob is reached with around 20 or so opponents, the additional ones don't seem to add anything to the speed the lone fighter is subdued (engaging a mob in close quarter would be a losing strategy in any case).
aco175
Legend
I had 2 ideas;
1: PCs raise dead on the treant and all is well.
2: Have every 20th commoner score a 20 on their roll and each PC takes 10d6 on the first round and then adjust to 6d6 the next round assuming the PCs can kill off that many. Worst if they can hit on a 19-20 against the casters.
1: PCs raise dead on the treant and all is well.
2: Have every 20th commoner score a 20 on their roll and each PC takes 10d6 on the first round and then adjust to 6d6 the next round assuming the PCs can kill off that many. Worst if they can hit on a 19-20 against the casters.
Just because they're commoners doesn't mean that they don't have ranged weapons. Even thrown rocks can be deadly if they're the size of your fist and dozens are being thrown at you. I also don't assume they have good fighting form - it's more of a crush of people trying to overrun the PCs with shear numbers so they don't require 5 foot squares per individual.
I'd probably base something along the line of the zombie clot from Van Richten's. The individuals are unthinking, pushing and shoving each other out of the way trying to kill the target. I'd probably give it some kind of shove attack that can either push someone 10 feet to separate the group or knock prone as a bonus action. Then follow up with slam attacks or attacks that restrain as some of the mob hold the victim down. If someone is knocked prone I'd probably limit their line of sight to 5 feet since they can't see through the crowd.
There's a reason Frankenstein's monster always ran from the torch and pitchfork wielding mob. Just because individually they couldn't stand up to a mid-level PC doesn't mean they wouldn't be deadly working in concert. Morale really depends on realizing what's happening and if you're in a frenzied mob you may not realize what's happening just 10 feet away.
I wouldn't call a hundreds-strong force of bowmen a mob. Thrown rocks, sure, why not. But they might very well be defeated easily by low level spells. Spike Growth cast around a PC will make him unable to be engaged in melee even with reach weapons (the 4 HP commoner would die after walking 5 to 10 ft, half the distance necessary to be adjacent to the PC...). Tightly packed, pushing and shoving mob would die by dozens before realizing the deadly spikes are impaling them wholesale. And your mob trying to enter an area of hard spikes and thorny enough to kill you after a few feet of progress would certainly have the pushed-in try to escape on the side rather than press onward into the shrubbery of doom... stampeding themselves while the characters just stand still. That is, unless the spikes are covered in a (1st level) fog cloud, from which none of the peasants will emerge alive.
(TBH, I'd rule that after four of five dead bodies on the same square, the body pile towers above the thorns, but it would be against RAW).
Sure, on the next wave the mobsters will want to try to throw rocks and avoid tightly packed formations (because if they are two in a single square packed, like a phalanx unit, a single fireball would kill 88 of them in an obvious, loud, and blatant display of power. Sure, it's possible to keep cohesion after that but they'd need to be motivated to fight to the death).
They'd have better chance trying to mount an ambush or harass the PCs with guerrilla warfare rather than rushing at them, zombie-like, unless they have some situational advantage.
Yes, and its "a definite lack of machine-gun". Warriors PCs would be useless against a mob, it's spellcasters that would make the fight one-sided (unless ambushed).
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pming
Legend
Hiya!
Why do the PC's have to fight? Or fight to kill? Lots of magic and ability to "subdue" things in the game. Unless the OP's group of PC's are just a bunch of bloodthirsty psychopaths. At 7th level they should have magic and items letting them "escape" or something. Sleep, Wall of..., Cause Fear, and the ever popular "striking to subdue" (re: in 5e, if you reduce a creatures HP to 0 you, the attacker, can just say "I KO him"). Even the dreaded "Leomunds Tiny Hut" spell might allow the Party time to find a different solution.
Or just open the whole case of Whupazz Extreme and just go whole hog on the commoners...if the PC's are evil and/or psychopathic murder hobo's. Commoners who were afraid of a tree are going to be TERRIFIED when 20 of their fellow villagers drop dead in the space of 5 seconds or so and the PC's are still in the "Look...guys...seriously...it was an evil Hag..."...like they didn't even break a sweat killing those 20 commoners.
It'd be like a hundred townsfolk trying to go after an elite mercenary team of soldiers who are armed with grenade launchers, mines, C-4, Desert Eagles, machine guns, driving in a tank with three armed killer-drones flying overhead. The townsfolk are NOT going to come out on top. And after the first few seconds, when 20 of their friends and family are mowed down or blown up without any damage being done to the mercenaries...well...
^_^
Paul L. Ming
Why do the PC's have to fight? Or fight to kill? Lots of magic and ability to "subdue" things in the game. Unless the OP's group of PC's are just a bunch of bloodthirsty psychopaths. At 7th level they should have magic and items letting them "escape" or something. Sleep, Wall of..., Cause Fear, and the ever popular "striking to subdue" (re: in 5e, if you reduce a creatures HP to 0 you, the attacker, can just say "I KO him"). Even the dreaded "Leomunds Tiny Hut" spell might allow the Party time to find a different solution.
Or just open the whole case of Whupazz Extreme and just go whole hog on the commoners...if the PC's are evil and/or psychopathic murder hobo's. Commoners who were afraid of a tree are going to be TERRIFIED when 20 of their fellow villagers drop dead in the space of 5 seconds or so and the PC's are still in the "Look...guys...seriously...it was an evil Hag..."...like they didn't even break a sweat killing those 20 commoners.
It'd be like a hundred townsfolk trying to go after an elite mercenary team of soldiers who are armed with grenade launchers, mines, C-4, Desert Eagles, machine guns, driving in a tank with three armed killer-drones flying overhead. The townsfolk are NOT going to come out on top. And after the first few seconds, when 20 of their friends and family are mowed down or blown up without any damage being done to the mercenaries...well...
^_^
Paul L. Ming
Err, it was my understanding that it only applied to melee attack damage. Can you really do non-lethal damage with arrows and spells? I might have been playing it wrong. On the other hand, yes, they don't have to fight.
Bard: "Look, guys, don't worry, I'll explain everything to the villagers..."
Wizards casts Fireball
Druid casts Spike Growth
Warlock casts Hunger of Hadar
Bards "Listen! We're coming in peace to help you! It's just an horrible misunderstanding!"
Warrior, looking at the village square littered with bodies: "Who are you talking to, exactly?"
Charlaquin
Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
Give the Swarm of Angry Villagers a trait reflecting that. Something like,
“When a Medium or smaller creature starts its turn in the swarm’s space, it must succeed on a DC (whatever) Strength saving throw or take XdY bludgeoning damage and be knocked prone.”
Khelon Testudo
Cleric of Stronmaus
A 5th level Sleep spell at 13d8 should knock out a fair number of folks. Average 4.5 x 13 = 54.5 = maybe ten commoners? Hypnotic Pattern will take care of another 30-odd crowded together? Surely that would cause the others to pause, if not flee?
akr71
Hero
The party definitely has those non-lethal options & others. I’m not worried about the party. I was looking for ideas on how to handle the mob IF combat breaks out.
I think I have that covered now. I really have no idea how the party will react to this scenario. Which is actually very intriguing and why I love playing with this group.
pming
Legend
Hiya!
In a nutshell... if I was looking to roll some dice...
Divide them into "identifiable groups": "Irate Farmers", "Concerned Mothers", "Uppity 20-somethings", "Devoted Old Timers". Then assign each of these groups a Morale score. Personally I turn to Basic D&D for this; it's quick, easy and reliable. Basically a rating between 2 and 12; 2 NEVER fails, 12 NEVER passes. Roll 2d6 and a successful "morale check" is their Moral number or lower. If they fail, then something happens.
I generally have what 'happens' be contingent other situation; if the PC's are giving them an opportunity to "gracefully bow out" (re: run away, surrender, call it a draw, hem n' haw then say "Well, I still don't like it, but....I guess we can try it your way...", etc), then I ask the Players what they want to do. They do that, and I make another Moral check, with modifiers based on what the PC's just did. That result is the final result on exactly what the group does.
I'm sure you can find the Moral rules for B/X/BECMI out there somewhere if you don't have them.
Each of the identifiable groups would have a "Moral Factor" and if that group fails, then that number gets subtracted from each of the other groups Moral rating. So, if the "Irate Farmers" had a Moral Rating of 8, but a Moral Factor of 3, and they 'failed' their Moral and are willing to hear the PC's out...then the other three groups Moral ratings drop by 3 points each. Simply put, as more in the Mob "fail", the less likely the rest of the Mob is to remain so hell bent on violence.
^_^
Paul L. Ming
In a nutshell... if I was looking to roll some dice...
Divide them into "identifiable groups": "Irate Farmers", "Concerned Mothers", "Uppity 20-somethings", "Devoted Old Timers". Then assign each of these groups a Morale score. Personally I turn to Basic D&D for this; it's quick, easy and reliable. Basically a rating between 2 and 12; 2 NEVER fails, 12 NEVER passes. Roll 2d6 and a successful "morale check" is their Moral number or lower. If they fail, then something happens.
I generally have what 'happens' be contingent other situation; if the PC's are giving them an opportunity to "gracefully bow out" (re: run away, surrender, call it a draw, hem n' haw then say "Well, I still don't like it, but....I guess we can try it your way...", etc), then I ask the Players what they want to do. They do that, and I make another Moral check, with modifiers based on what the PC's just did. That result is the final result on exactly what the group does.
I'm sure you can find the Moral rules for B/X/BECMI out there somewhere if you don't have them.
Each of the identifiable groups would have a "Moral Factor" and if that group fails, then that number gets subtracted from each of the other groups Moral rating. So, if the "Irate Farmers" had a Moral Rating of 8, but a Moral Factor of 3, and they 'failed' their Moral and are willing to hear the PC's out...then the other three groups Moral ratings drop by 3 points each. Simply put, as more in the Mob "fail", the less likely the rest of the Mob is to remain so hell bent on violence.
^_^
Paul L. Ming
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