Mods shutting down threads for threadcrapping

[Umbran]

having been burned by doing so in person in the past causes me to want to reserve the right to question motives whenever my little alarm bells start going off.

Do you recognize a difference between "reserve the right to question motives" and "reserve the right to publicly impugn motives"?

If you want to keep in the back of your mind the idea that people and internet conversation are both complicated, so it may be that what we can see isn't the entirety of it, that's fine. But just blurting out dismissing people because you assume/believe their motives are suspect isn't fine.

And that lack of other information- such as body language- is why one must be especially cautious in being accusatory & confrontational in online discussions.

That doesn’t mean you need to set your cynicism and mistrust aside. But it DOES mean you may need to ask better questions before reaching conclusions about others’ hidden motives and positions just based on their postings on ENWorld, etc.

And, we can expand on that a little - frequently, what someone might call a "motive" or "bias" might be better seen as a perspective that deeply moves them.

It is very easy to see a person and decide, "Well, they had this bad experience, so their judgement on the matter is biased, and should be ignored." When, really, the fact that they had this experience is the bloody point, and the resulting perspective should not be discarded, but accepted as a true thing that must be contended with.

Motive does not, in and of itself, make a statement true or false.

I would love to see "-" threads, where opinions on things could be shared in a non-safe space.

Non-safe spaces generally wind up dominated by those who are willing to behave the worst.

Maybe I need to stick in my speech on psychological safety, and why it is important.

Let only people who sign up and opt in be able to see them?

Conflicts and emnity that develop in that non-safe space will not stay there.

 

[Mercurius]

So, if someone is speaking about the real harm they have taken, we should not be overly concerned about whether they are nice about it. We generally shouldn't police the tone of victims of racism or misogyny, or the like, when they are speaking on that subject.

But, if someone is asserting that they should not have to worry about harm they may be doing, they darned well ought to be nice about it!

That's a false duality, Umbran, and I think you know that. Those aren't the only groups of people involved in such conversations, or the only voices presented. Let's not confuse outrage with real harm.

 

[Lanefan]

I would love to see "-" threads, where opinions on things could be shared in a non-safe space.

Let only people who sign up and opt in be able to see them? Maybe even block it form Google search engine bots?

Don't know, but would be cool to see everyone's unfiltered opinions on things.

There's still, I think, circvsmaximvs.boards.net for that - it's a forum started (I think!) by either Morrus or one of his predecessors as pretty much just this - an outlet valve for completely off-topic and-or off-colour posts and "discussions" that have no real place here.

It's fallen into considerable disuse of late, I suspect largely because very few remain who know of or remember it and it's not really promoted on this site any more.

 

[beancounter]

There's still, I think, circvsmaximvs.boards.net for that - it's a forum started (I think!) by either Morrus or one of his predecessors as pretty much just this - an outlet valve for completely off-topic and-or off-colour posts and "discussions" that have no real place here.

It's fallen into considerable disuse of late, I suspect largely because very few remain who know of or remember it and it's not really promoted on this site any more.

I would like to see a thread for such off- topic topics here.

 

[Lanefan]

Do you recognize a difference between "reserve the right to question motives" and "reserve the right to publicly impugn motives"?

Yes, but any post attempting the one is almost certain to be interpreted as the other; and that's where it gets sticky.

And, we can expand on that a little - frequently, what someone might call a "motive" or "bias" might be better seen as a perspective that deeply moves them.

Indeed; and that is of course completely fine.

I've just run across too many real-life instances where the "perspective that deeply moves" someone turns out to be a false front hiding some other, less savoury motive(s).

Motive does not, in and of itself, make a statement true or false.

IME it both can and - sometimes - does.

 

[Lanefan]

I would like to see a thread for such off- topic topics here.

No need, when there's circvsmaximvs for it. I could be wrong, but I've a dim memory of that board being created in part due to just such requests as you're making here.

 

[Jahydin]

Non-safe spaces generally wind up dominated by those who are willing to behave the worst.

That's true.

I had nothing but good intentions with my thought. ""Real talk" with a group of trusted friends" was the atmosphere I had in mind. The more I thought it through though, the more I realized how unrealistic that would be on the internet. Bad people ruin everything...

Maybe I need to stick in my speech on psychological safety, and why it is important.

If you have a link I'd like to read it.

 

[Jahydin]

There's still, I think, circvsmaximvs.boards.net for that - it's a forum started (I think!) by either Morrus or one of his predecessors as pretty much just this - an outlet valve for completely off-topic and-or off-colour posts and "discussions" that have no real place here.

Oh, never heard of it. Thanks.

Instead of threads being locked down, maybe they could just "punted" over there, haha?

 

[Morrus]

I would love to see "-" threads, where opinions on things could be shared in a non-safe space.

Let only people who sign up and opt in be able to see them? Maybe even block it form Google search engine bots?

Don't know, but would be cool to see everyone's unfiltered opinions on things.

That is not a community I have any interest in running. There are plenty of such communities out there. But I’m not interested in hosting (or visiting) such a thing.

 

[Jahydin]

That is not a community I have any interest in running. There are plenty of such communities out there. But I’m not interested in hosting (or visiting) such a thing.

My first thought was: "Yeah, but those other communities are filled with the WORST sorts of people..."

Second thought: "Oh..."