Moment of Glory

[Raikun]

MoG removes minions from having any purpose throughout much of heroic tier, other than maybe providing flanking for non-minions. The party can effectively ignore an unlimited amount of minions, even if they crit, until they can do more than 5 damage.

If it's an encounter that would actually cause the cleric to use MoG, you still have options:

1) Let the minions use assists to let the BBEGs big hits land easier (You should be doing this even without MoG...it's probably the most useful thing they can do a lot of times.

2) Give your BBEG an aura that boosts minion's damage

3) Use minions for encounters leading up to the boss fight where they'll do their 5 damage, and use a mix of brutes and minions in the boss fight (see option 1).

MoG is fine as is.

 

[S'mon]

If it's an encounter that would actually cause the cleric to use MoG, you still have options:

1) Let the minions use assists to let the BBEGs big hits land easier (You should be doing this even without MoG...it's probably the most useful thing they can do a lot of times.

2) Give your BBEG an aura that boosts minion's damage

3) Use minions for encounters leading up to the boss fight where they'll do their 5 damage, and use a mix of brutes and minions in the boss fight (see option 1).

MoG is fine as is.

I don't understand this attitude. How can any power be fine if it requires the DM to build his encounters around anticipated use of that power? What if the player drops out or changes PC, and your MoG-balanced encounter is now a death trap for the MoG-less group?

 

[keterys]

I'm not sure that any power that demands redesigning encounters or monkeying with broad swatches of monster mechanics is "fine as is".

I'm not sure it's worth fixing - that's kind of a different question, but the power is demonstrably not "fine". It just might not be worth nerfing, or as broken as some claim.

For "amusement", run through encounters with a group that includes 4 clerics with moment of glory, so you can fire one off every combat.

 

[Raikun]

I don't understand this attitude. How can any power be fine if it requires the DM to build his encounters around anticipated use of that power? What if the player drops out or changes PC, and your MoG-balanced encounter is now a death trap for the MoG-less group?

The 3 options I listed are all generally stuff I do in encounters anyways, MoG or not.

 

[Raikun]

I'm not sure it's worth fixing - that's kind of a different question, but the power is demonstrably not "fine". It just might not be worth nerfing, or as broken as some claim.

"Not worth nerfing" is kinda part of what I meant by "fine". It's not perfect...but not especially broken either.

Yeah, it's an "I win" button against level 1 encounters...as are many other dailies. And I've never seen it used against a level 1 encounter...it's always saved for the big fight of the day. (So that's the majority of encounters where minions are fine, ongoing damage is fine, etc.) The claim that MoG makes minions and ongoing damage irrelevant through much of the heroic tier is simply not true.

Against a level 3 encounter where you're fighting brutes with 15 damage average it's still very significant, but not broken, and by the time we reach level 4 or 5 encounters, I hardly need to pay it a second thought anymore, and still have no trouble challenging the party.

In my groups, MoG is demonstrably "fine."

 

[keterys]

I suspect we're operating at different definitions. You don't mean fine as in "very well" or "superior quality", but "The soldier looked down at his bleeding wound. 'No, sarge, I'm fine'". And yeah, maybe the power doesn't actually need triage or shouldn't be taken out of active service. But... the power's design is still mediocre. Whether that mediocrity will impact your game or not varies from game to game.

 

[Raikun]

But... the power's design is still mediocre. Whether that mediocrity will impact your game or not varies from game to game.

Yep, I'd agree with mediocre. (And nearly always if you ask someone how they're doing, and they go "eh, I'm fine"...that's what they mean, so that's kinda how I used the word hehe).

I guess my point is that every DM has the tools available to keep encounters challenging with MoG's existance, and it doesn't really take any particular effort to do so.

 

[jimmifett]

"Not worth nerfing" is kinda part of what I meant by "fine". It's not perfect...but not especially broken either.

Yeah, it's an "I win" button against level 1 encounters...as are many other dailies. And I've never seen it used against a level 1 encounter...it's always saved for the big fight of the day. (So that's the majority of encounters where minions are fine, ongoing damage is fine, etc.) The claim that MoG makes minions and ongoing damage irrelevant through much of the heroic tier is simply not true.

Against a level 3 encounter where you're fighting brutes with 15 damage average it's still very significant, but not broken, and by the time we reach level 4 or 5 encounters, I hardly need to pay it a second thought anymore, and still have no trouble challenging the party.

In my groups, MoG is demonstrably "fine."

If you limit your fight to just heavy hitting brutes, but that is not oft the case. Many creatures have reduced base damage to account for ongoing damage kickers. Those creatures throughout 2/3 (up to levels 6-7ish) of heroic tier are now putting out significantly less damage, due to lower base damage and zero ongoing damage.

That is, currently, 198 monsters levels 1-5, that lose their ongoing damage.
Almost 100 minions at the same level range that would do no damage what-so-ever the entire encounter.

This power is definitely broken for heroic tier in it's current form.

 

[Raikun]

Those creatures throughout 2/3 (up to levels 6-7ish) of heroic tier are now putting out significantly less damage, due to lower base damage and zero ongoing damage.

Only in one fight maximum a day. Most of the time those creatures have no difficulty.

And in that one fight a day where MoG would get used, there are a host of other dailies getting used as well which leads to a DM needing to step up the difficulty/damage/etc to challenge the party.

 

[Pentius]

I don't understand this attitude. How can any power be fine if it requires the DM to build his encounters around anticipated use of that power? What if the player drops out or changes PC, and your MoG-balanced encounter is now a death trap for the MoG-less group?

I dunno about the guy you were directly responding to, but to me that's fine, because I build encounters with an eye to how the players are going to use their powers anyway. For me to build an encounter with that sort of thing in mind is not indicative to me that a single power is overpowered. And if the Cleric, for some reason, isn't there at that big encounter, I'll change it to make it not a deathtrap(which is a lot more than my old DM did for us when our MoG Cleric was gone, and we never TPK'd).

For "amusement", run through encounters with a group that includes 4 clerics with moment of glory, so you can fire one off every combat.

Actually, they'd have DR in 4 encounters a day, but their damage output would be so low it'd almost balance out, and you'd just have 4 really long encounters per day, not 4 encounters per day where the party whupped butt.