"Mongrelfolk" -- what the?!...

S'mon · May 23, 2005

Last night I was at a pub where an American visitor here on vacation ate Sticky Toffee Pudding (despite imprecations from my American wife and another American resident in London & familiar with UK cuisine) - and she _liked_ it, pretty much. I did finish it off for her though...

ptolemy18 · May 23, 2005

[DELETED]

I deleted my own brief post 'cause I changed my mind after reading everyone's responses.

Jason

ptolemy18 · May 23, 2005

In my own opinion....

Yes, it's obviously an offensive term in real life, and I'd understand being reluctant to use "mongrelmen" in a campaign. However, it's virtually impossible for a fantasy world not to be politically incorrect one way or another... the very idea of some races being innately evil, or innately stupid... unless you're either intentionally blanding the fantasy down to be inoffensive, or you're intentionally doing an "explosion of fantasy stereotypes" like, say, Samuel Delany's DHALGREN (starring two gay barbarians, a female fighter with a vulva-shaped double-sword, etc. etc.)

For my part... in case this shows where I'm coming from... I really liked in LORD OF THE RINGS: THE TWO TOWERS when they went ahead and had the "evil men from the east" with their turbans and elephants. Very gutsy not to water down Tolkein's original text with its "evil foreigners" vibe.

And, on the other hand, I *also* really liked the moment in LORD OF THE RINGS: RETURN OF THE KING when they showed the orc with long blonde hair. It was a very good way to defuse the potential racism in the idea of something like orcs. That's how I would have done it. 'Cause it's important to show you can be a degenerate, barbaric, inherently evil, filthy subhuman AND have long, straight blonde hair.

Personally, I wouldn't have mongrelmen in my campaign, but only 'cause I'm trying to cut down the number of demi-humans. In fact, in my campaign, which is set in a pseudo-Europe, I'm assuming that all Anglo-Saxons and Germans and other northern tribes are orcs and half-orcs....

Aww, no, I got involved in a pseudo-political argument...! MUST... STOP... POSTING!!!

Jason

S'mon · May 23, 2005

ptolemy18 said:
'Cause it's important to show you can be a degenerate, barbaric, inherently evil, filthy subhuman AND have long, straight blonde hair.

This is a pretty common stereotype, anyway. :\
(BTW "blonde" is the feminine form).

Last week IMC the Viking Horde of blond Aryans led by a crazed warlord (a Player Character) descended on the peaceful quasi-Buddhist Kingdom of Tantok, slaughtered loads of people and sacked the fair city of Panyong. As far as I'm concerned, just because they don't have green skin and tusks doesn't make them morally superior to orcs. Although I suppose orcs might have eaten the Governor when he refused to cooperate rather than just throw him in a dungeon. The PC-led horde then proceeded to the capital city, where they've been bought off by Tribute (a snip at 800,000gp), at least for now.

Gez · May 23, 2005

VirgilCaine said:
Sometimes, 2nd edition is still superior. In 2e they didn't have their very own GOD.

Yes they had. Meriadar was his name.
You can read the complete Monstrous Mythology excerpt about him on oracle.wizards.com.

Here's the first paragraph:

Meriadar (The Peaceful God, The Patient One, the Master Artisan) Intermediate Power of Arcadia, LN

Portfolio: Mongrelmen, non-evil humanoids, patience, meditation, tolerance, arts and crafts Aliases: None Domain Name: Buxenus/The Hand of Peace Superior: None Allies: Eldath, Ilmater, Torm, Tyr, Oghma, Gond, Milil, Lathander, Eilistraee, Psilofyr Foes: Virtually every goblinoid god, Vaprak, the drow pantheon (except Eilistraee), Ilsensine, Loviatar Symbol: A decorated wide-mouthed bowl Wor. Alignment: LG, NG, CG, LN, N, CN

Meriadar (Mer-AYE-uh-dar) is both the patron god of mongrelmen, and, by later accretion, all non-evil goblinoids. Meriadar teaches that all souls are capable of redemption, even those who are members of races that are supposedly predisposed to evil. Therefore his faithful, originally confined to the mongrelmen race, has blossomed in recent millennia to include members of virtually every humanoid race, a substantial portion of whom are goblinoids who have turned their back upon the evil ways of their individual races. Meriadar and his followers do not judge on appearances, for a true heart can be found behind the most hideous facade and in a member of the darkest and most vile races.

diaglo · May 23, 2005

the Jester said:
Originally it is from one of the A modules, actually- I believe it's Slave Pits of the Undercity. But I could be wrong.

So when you complain about it, what you are complaining about is the designers being faithful to a monster race when translating into a player race.

Personally, I prefer it when the 3e updates attempt to stay faithful.

iirc Markessa was to blame for their creation.

edit: memory is the first thing to go....

Jolly Giant · May 23, 2005

S'mon said:
Last week IMC the Viking Horde of blond Aryans led by a crazed warlord (a Player Character) descended on the peaceful quasi-Buddhist Kingdom of Tantok, slaughtered loads of people and sacked the fair city of Panyong. As far as I'm concerned, just because they don't have green skin and tusks doesn't make them morally superior to orcs. Although I suppose orcs might have eaten the Governor when he refused to cooperate rather than just throw him in a dungeon. The PC-led horde then proceeded to the capital city, where they've been bought off by Tribute (a snip at 800,000gp), at least for now.

This is just blatant Viking-bashing! I'm offended!