"Mongrelfolk" -- what the?!...

[Vraille Darkfang]

One should not need to refer to original source material for the product in hand. The current product, sans historical geeky perspective, was badly composed.

True,

But I HAVE that perpective & when I read it, I saw none of what you talked about in your orginal post. However, AFTER reading your post, I do see how people could easily read it & see it the way you did.

And you are right, the entry seemed poorly put together. In fact, when I read it, It didn't even stick in my head. I just dismissed it, if anyone in my game really wanted to play a Mongrelfolk, I'd convert it from the 2nd ed Humanoid's Handbook.

I'm not trying to dismiss your 'Political Correctness' to use the term, either. I think making 'mixed' race they way they did in Races of Destiny, and calling it a 'mogrel' can alienate a large portion of the populace.

So, give my the 2nd ed Mongrelman any day. (Also, notice me and others keep saying MongrelMAN rather than MongrelFOLK? That's what they were called, just like LizardMAN. WotC appears to have made a blanket decsion that all monster-men should be converted to monster-folk. I think the 2nd ed Mongrel-whatever where gender nuetral, the mad wizard apperently didn't stick everything on he could have).

 

[Henry]

This thread should probably be tied down shortly, as I expect a few more angry responses by (heh - this is rich) ... people who are offended at me being offended that someone was offended at my initial concerns. Personal attacks will follow, and we'll be reminded by the moderators to play nice.

Freakin' PRESCIENT, you are!

Since you started it, if you think you've got your questions answered here, I can close it for you, and if someone else feels like continuing a discussion of Mongrelfolk in D&D, then they can feel free to open their own thread. Or, if you want to let this thread continue, without any political comments or personal insults, then I can get behind that, too.

But regardless, ladies and gents, let's please step back from the personal insults; it goes nowhere fast.

Thank you.

 

[Driddle]

(Stunned by reasonable, non-angry response and ability to switch perspectives; insert crying smiley icon here)

Gawd bless you, VD. Thank you for ... for ... ah, heck. My faith in humanity has been restored.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The notion that a bunch of humanoids humping away indiscriminantly would produce a race of random parts is beyond silly. It's not as bad as it is in D20M, if that description of Moreaus is correct -- the Modern game should at least TRY and have a passing awareness of how genetics work.

In D&D, it's not quite so bad, but all of the half-races we've seen in the past have either been relatively close (although humans interbreeding with orcs and elves and ogres has always suggested troubling things to me about where humans came from to begin with) or have been clearly magical. (No half-golem's daddy is an iron golem, for instance.)

Can we all just agree that mongrel* is a pretty stupid critter, whatever the edition?

 

[Dark Psion]

Dragon Magazine #242 had an Ecology of Mongrelmen and offered an alternative origin.

They were created to be a greater form of Doppleganger. While Dopplegangers are master shapeshifters, they can only take the form of a human, demi-human or humanoid. This new race of Infiltrators would be able to actually "become" that race. This "Race shifting" was accomplished by eating the flesh of each of these races.

While the original Infiltrators did possess this supeior form of shapeshifting, Their children did not. They did however inherit some of the racial traits of all the races their ancestor had aquired.

The article includes a "Designing a Mongrelman" appendix and 2e stats for the original Infiltrator race.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Dragon Magazine #242 had an Ecology of Mongrelmen and offered an alternative origin.

They were created to be a greater form of Doppleganger. While Dopplegangers are master shapeshifters, they can only take the form of a human, demi-human or humanoid. This new race of Infiltrators would be able to actually "become" that race. This "Race shifting" was accomplished by eating the flesh of each of these races.

While the original Infiltrators did possess this supeior form of shapeshifting, Their children did not. They did however inherit some of the racial traits of all the races their ancestor had aquired.

Vastly superior, and it nicely ties into the Changelings, giving the two races a relationship that not all members will be aware of.

 

[werk]

I haven't checked this one out yet ... but I didn't like the mongrelmen in 1e or 2e. Looks like there still won't be any IMC.

"I don't know what I'm talking about, but I already have an opinion."

LMAO

 

[gizmo33]

Upon perusing "Races of Destiny," I finally noticed one of the supplemental race options, the Mongrelfolk. Just gotta say, "What the heck were they thinking?!"
(snip)
We'll let that go. No problem.

Writing and posting is not the same as letting something go. That sort of indirection loses it in the translation from the kind of games people play when they're talking and the kind of games that a person can play when writing.

"Racial" issues are definitely a part of the writings of Tolkien and RE Howard (at least) - two of the pillars of traditional fantasy. Many of the ideas of racial memory and cutural steotypes and so on are standard parts of fantasy. "Racial" concepts have a near mythic quality - and any other concept that has as much legend and magic associated with it certainly shows up in a game about magic and other archaic belief systems - so why not race? The idea of witchcraft and curses have certainly caused as much death and misery within societies as the idea of race. Perhaps one is not as safely in the rear-view mirror of history as the other.

And somehow that's supposed to make them ugly (-4 Char!) or prompt others to assume the worst about their racial origins?!

Please. Try to explain this one to me. I could use a good laugh.

Yea, it sounds like there are two competing ideas for what "mongrelfolk" type being would be about. Both the "Frankenstein's monster" and "blend of characteristics" model makes sense (well, as much sense as magic missle makes) - but I agree that the two together make no sense. I guess as a DM you can pick one or another (or both, probably with different names) - it would depend on whatever campaign history you wanted to use.

 

[Richards]

Originally posted by Dark Psion:

Dragon Magazine #242 had an Ecology of Mongrelmen and offered an alternative origin.

They were created to be a greater form of Doppleganger. While Dopplegangers are master shapeshifters, they can only take the form of a human, demi-human or humanoid. This new race of Infiltrators would be able to actually "become" that race. This "Race shifting" was accomplished by eating the flesh of each of these races.

While the original Infiltrators did possess this supeior form of shapeshifting, Their children did not. They did however inherit some of the racial traits of all the races their ancestor had aquired.

The article includes a "Designing a Mongrelman" appendix and 2e stats for the original Infiltrator race.

Yep, that was one of mine. I came up with the "alternate origin" of the mongrelman because I really disliked the "official" origin - that the mongrelman race arose from breeding among different races. I could see that up to a point - D&D has allowed for humans and elves to interbreed, and humans and orcs (and Dark Sun even had a human/dwarf race, the "mul") - but since most mongrelman illustrations invariably included a crabman's pincer and/or lizardman scales, I couldn't for the life of me figure out how there was logically supposed to be a viable race created by the breeding of mammals, reptiles, and crustaceans!

I'm glad to hear that the article is still seeing some use.

Johnathan

 

[DMH]

Can we all just agree that mongrel* is a pretty stupid critter, whatever the edition?

Sure. The Orlins from one of the Creature Weeklys (on rpgnow) is a much better version that explains that most humanoids (including trolls for some reason) are all divergent strains from one species. The orlin (sp?) is the result of them rehybridizing and producing something similar to the original species.