"Mongrelfolk" -- what the?!...

[Vraille Darkfang]

If you can find it, the Humanoids Handbook has a much better picture of a Mongrelman (or MongrelFOLK as the new PC race is called).

It even had a chart for you to randomly determine what each piece of your body came from. I had one with a Crabman Arm, Ogre Leg (the other was a goblin's), my head was from 3 different creatures.

Originally, Mongrelmen were Magical experiments gone wild (think Frankenstein). They were not even a 'race' per se. At some point TSR/WotC decided to make them a 'race' and allowed them to breed true.

If you've seen the orgins of mongrelfolk, you won't seen what you're seeing.

 

[Gez]

The ToH version of the Mongrelmen have the random body part table.

 

[Driddle]

It even had a chart for you to randomly determine what each piece of your body came from. I had one with a Crabman Arm, Ogre Leg (the other was a goblin's), my head was from 3 different creatures.

Originally, Mongrelmen were Magical experiments gone wild (think Frankenstein). They were not even a 'race' per se. ...

Heck, I can get behind that concept. Makes it more of a magical construction issue (chaotic patchwork) rather than a interracial breeding issue.

Unfortunately, such an explanatory background was totally lacking in the "Destiny" product. The editing/writing crew made a big mistake in trying to toss off "mongrels" as a mixed race.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

"Are open to" and "require" are not interchangeable. ... Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

And yet, that's his decision to make - just as this thread was yours.

And as the decision to post this was mine.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Unfortunately, such an explanatory background was totally lacking in the "Destiny" product. The editing/writing crew made a big mistake in trying to toss off "mongrels" as a mixed race.

They are mixed race.

They're orc, ogre, human, elf, hominid, dragon, and any of a dozen other things dropped into a blender and set on frappe.

Perhaps some mongrelfolk result from magical experimentation, perhaps others are the runts of orog litters, and still others are what you get when a half-orc does his thing with a halfling.

 

[Von Ether]

Actually all Breeds of Dog are a single species and human ethnic groups should in fact be considered more 'breed' than race (except for the negative contations of being considered a breed). The Mongrel folk are more analogous to Mules (horse/donkey mix) maybe even dog/bear mix than dog/dog

In this regard, how readers/players look at mongrel men represent "modernization of fantasy" so to speak. How we apply our 20th century, politicaly correct views on a much harsher time.

In that vein, it might be easier to look at them from a SF angle, like the moreaus of d20 Modern. A poor soul who's walking around with a face only a monther could love that's come from soup of genetics from all sorts of animals and humonids.

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

They are mixed race.

They're orc, ogre, human, elf, hominid, dragon, and any of a dozen other things dropped into a blender and set on frappe.

Perhaps some mongrelfolk result from magical experimentation, perhaps others are the runts of orog litters, and still others are what you get when a half-orc does his thing with a halfling.

Not quite:

Think of Sausage (not in that way either).

Franks are so finally ground you can't tell what is in them, it all blends into 1 distinctive whole.

Home-made Brats are coarsley ground and have distinctive bits of Peppers, Garlic, Herbs, Lamb, Pork, etc spread throughout. While a unique whole the parts that make up the whole are easily apperent.

Mangrelmen were brats.

Unlike interbreeding (say half-orcs & half-elves), there is no true 'mixing' going on. It is not a 'blending' of two races. It's taking whole parts and gluing them together.

From your Blender example:

Half-Orc: Blender on liquify, poured in glass.

Mongrelman: Man with Butcherknife and toothpicks.

Thus, the complaint of the poster, that Mogrelfolk are a slight against those of 'mixed' race is totally incorrect. While the blurb in Races of Destiny CAN be read that way, if you (like me) can go back to the orginal source material, you see the orginal was more based on taking the Monster Manual, putting it through a chipper & then trying to piece the pictures together.

Races of Destiny just wanted to make them a more 'attractive' player character race, as opposed to a monster, NO TWO OF WHICH ARE A LIKE (in the Orginal Monster Manual description). Thus they made them more like if you made the Hunchback of Notre Dame a PC race, than the sewer-mutants they, indeed are.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Is this some kind of black/white thing? You Americans are crazy...

Nah, just someone looking to be offended...

 

[Driddle]

And yet, that's his decision to make - just as this thread was yours.

And as the decision to post this was mine.

The difference, dearheart, is that in my initial post I did not offhandedly dismiss the validity of anyone's sensibilities here. I did not open this thread by suggesting YOU were being oversensitive or that YOU had no reason to be offended. ... After my post, however, at least a few people thought it was important that they step up and dismiss my concerns, assuming that I was speaking from an artificially created postion of "political correctness." THAT is the difference.

"Politically correct" is too often used as a meaningless cliche by those who are offended at someone else being offended -- implying that somehow the initial feeling of offense is unwarranted. As it's used in this thread, "PC" is dismissive instead of constructively descriptive.

And as long as we've spun off onto the tangent, here's something to chew on the next time you (generic "you," i.e. anyone here, not just Elvenshe) use the term or hear it used:

"Politically correct," in the strictest sense of its definition and origin, involves broad social and political changes to redress injustices caused by prejudice. Pay close attention to "broad social and political changes" (via American Heritage Dictionary of Idioms). The fact that an individual may find a term questionable does not immediately cast his concerns into the arena of broad social or political changes -- his concerns may only need to be addressed in a very limited one-on-one, interpersonal context.

And even though PC may involve avoiding offensive language, the inverse does not necessarily hold true, that avoiding offensive language must be PC. It's a subtle logic construction that a lot of folk can't seem to grasp.

The American Heritage Dictionary of English Usage (a different book from the Idiom text) further clarifies that PC is a matter of perception by the second party: "perceived as being overconcerned."

This constuct can't be stressed enough: One guy expresses concern over a matter of offense. The second guy labels the first as PC. ... The latter is an implied insult, that the first guy's concerns are unfounded and/or silly in the extreme.

This thread should probably be tied down shortly, as I expect a few more angry responses by (heh - this is rich) ... people who are offended at me being offended that someone was offended at my initial concerns. Personal attacks will follow, and we'll be reminded by the moderators to play nice.

... all because I think the descriptive text and game mechanics of "Mongrelmen" is pretty frippin' stupid.

 

[Driddle]

While the blurb in Races of Destiny CAN be read that way, if you (like me) can go back to the orginal source material, you see the orginal was ...

One should not need to refer to original source material for the product in hand. The current product, sans historical geeky perspective, was badly composed.