Monk Musings... (not a good reply from WotC)

[shai-hulud]

I seem to recall monks unarmed strikes not having any off-hands at all.

You are correct, but the FAQ explained that this was not meant as a game mechanic, but more as a description that regardless of which fist they strike with (left or right), they are not striking with an "off-hand". Here is the excerpt: Excerpt

 

[Seeten]

Ahh, the faq. I dont use, or even consider, the information contained in that "document"

 

[Klaus]

I have to disagree with your assessment. How many attacks is he making with his primary weapon? He is making 5 attacks with his primary weapon. How many attacks can he make with his off-hand weapon? It should be 5. What Base Attack Bonus should he use for those five off-hand attacks? It should be the same as his base attack bonus progression used for his primary weapon. I fail te see where he would lose two attacks per arm. Also, if you read the description of flurry of blows, his attacks are made with feet, head, etc. His hands could be full and he could still make unarmed strike attacks. This means that none of his arms have made attacks. ALL of his arms are available as off-hand attacks.

Also, once again, I point out the fact that a monk is designed to have more attacks than a fighter. Limiting a monk's epic attacks to fewer than a fighter defeats the concept of what a monk is supposed to be capable of. A fighter takes many feats to improve his attacks so that more of them would hit at epic levels. That makes all of his attacks effective (even with Perfect Multiweapon Fighting). What is your reason for thinking it otherwise?

Base Attack Bonus =/= Attack Bonus

BAB is specifically what you gain by virtue of your class levels and Hit Dice. A Ftr 21, with a BAB of +20/+15/+10/+5 wielding two short swords and with P2WF can attack at +20/+15/+10/+5 with each one. But if one of those is a short sword of speed, he gets an additional attack with it at +20. But not with the other.

 

[shai-hulud]

Base Attack Bonus =/= Attack Bonus

BAB is specifically what you gain by virtue of your class levels and Hit Dice. A Ftr 21, with a BAB of +20/+15/+10/+5 wielding two short swords and with P2WF can attack at +20/+15/+10/+5 with each one. But if one of those is a short sword of speed, he gets an additional attack with it at +20. But not with the other.

I agree that he would not gain the additional attack from the short sword of speed, but not because it does not fit into the base attack bonus progression. I agree with you there because the haste effect specifically says that it does not stack with any other effect. Therefore two-weapon fighting granting an extra attack from that would be granting an extra haste attack, which the haste rules prohibit. On the other hand, a monk using flurry of blows is making three attacks at his highest base attack bonus, not his highest attack bonus. To quote the SRD for Greater Flurry: "Greater Flurry

When a monk reaches 11th level, her flurry of blows ability improves. In addition to the standard single extra attack she gets from flurry of blows, she gets a second extra attack at her full base attack bonus. "

This says that both extra attacks are using Base Attack Bonus, not Attack Bonus. Is there an errata for this that I am missing?

 

[Seeten]

I am fairly sure Hypersmurf will be along shortly to give you a definitive ruling.

 

[shai-hulud]

I am fairly sure Hypersmurf will be along shortly to give you a definitive ruling.

Awesome . I am thinking of asking Monte Cook himself, though .

 

[Piratecat]

It was not meant to be impolite. I have edited the post removing the offensive piece of my argument.

Thanks for working this out without a fight, guys. It's often hard to tell if someone is being rude, especially without vocal inflection or body language. I just wanted to let you know that this was appreciated.

 

[shai-hulud]

Thanks for working this out without a fight, guys. It's often hard to tell if someone is being rude, especially without vocal inflection or body language. I just wanted to let you know that this was appreciated.

I do not mean to offend anyone. If any of my posts are seemingly offensive, please let me know and I will modify them accordingly. I tend to think faster than I type, so what I type is not always what I mean exactly.

 

[Klaus]

I agree that he would not gain the additional attack from the short sword of speed, but not because it does not fit into the base attack bonus progression. I agree with you there because the haste effect specifically says that it does not stack with any other effect. Therefore two-weapon fighting granting an extra attack from that would be granting an extra haste attack, which the haste rules prohibit. On the other hand, a monk using flurry of blows is making three attacks at his highest base attack bonus, not his highest attack bonus. To quote the SRD for Greater Flurry: "Greater Flurry

When a monk reaches 11th level, her flurry of blows ability improves. In addition to the standard single extra attack she gets from flurry of blows, she gets a second extra attack at her full base attack bonus. "

This says that both extra attacks are using Base Attack Bonus, not Attack Bonus. Is there an errata for this that I am missing?

No, you're reading this part right. It's an ability that gives the monk extra attacks at his highest Base Attack Bonus, and therefore it modifies the number of attacks granted to him by virtue of his Base Attack Bonus. The secondary attacks, granted by PMWF, aren't modified by the Flurry, because they're not *part* of the flurry.

 

[Nail]

Here's the original question:

If a thri-kreen monk wielding two quarterstaffs with Perfect Multiweapon fighting made a flurry of blows attack using only unarmed strikes, how many hands worth of off-hand attacks would he have?

The quarterstaff is a two-handed weapon. Two staves take up all four of the Thri-kreen's arms.

A monk can use a a quarterstaff as a special monk weapon, and "each end counts as a separate weapon for the purpose of using the flurry of blows ability."

So normally the attack progression would be (Mnk 20, Multiweaon Fighting feat, no Str, Magic, etc): +13/+13/+13/+8/+3 for one end (the "primary end") of one of the quarterstaves, then one extra attack with the each of the other three ends: +13/+13/+13.

With Perfect Multiweapon Fighting, the monk is allowed the same number of attacks with his secondary weapons as he has with his primary. So we have:

Primary Quarterstaff end: +13/+13/+13/+8/+3
Secondary Quarterstaff ends: +13/+13/+13/+8/+3, +13/+13/+13/+8/+3, +13/+13/+13/+8/+3

That looks like 20 attacks to me.