Monk two-weapon fighting only with unarmed strikes

[maldonuich]

Taking into account the latest FAQ:

"Can a monk fight with two weapons? Can she combine
a two-weapon attack with a flurry of blows? What are her
penalties on attack rolls?
A monk can fight with two weapons just like any other
character, but she must accept the normal penalties on her
attack rolls to do so. She can use an unarmed strike as an offhand
weapon. She can even combine two-weapon fighting with
a flurry of blows to gain an extra attack with her off hand (but
remember that she can use only unarmed strikes or special
monk weapons as part of the flurry). The penalties for twoweapon
fighting stack with the penalties for flurry of blows.
For example, at 6th level, the monk Ember can normally
make one attack per round at a +4 bonus. When using flurry of
blows, she may make two attacks (using unarmed strikes or any
special monk weapons she holds), each at a +3 bonus. If she
wants to make an extra attack with her off hand, she has to
accept a –4 penalty on her primary hand attacks and a –8
penalty on her off-hand attacks (assuming she wields a light
weapon in her off hand).
If Ember has Two-Weapon Fighting, she has to accept only
a –2 penalty on all attacks to make an extra attack with her off
hand. Thus, when wielding a light weapon in her off hand
during a flurry of blows, she can make a total of three attacks,
each at a total bonus of +1. At least one of these attacks has to
be with her off-hand weapon.
A 20th-level monk with Greater Two-Weapon Fighting can
make eight attacks per round during a flurry of blows.
Assuming she wields a light weapon in her off hand, her three
off-hand weapon attacks are at +13/+8/+3, and she has five
attacks (at +13/+13/+13/+8/+3) with unarmed strikes or any
weapons she carries in her primary hand. If the same monk also
has Rapid Shot and throws at least one shuriken as part of her
flurry of blows (since Rapid Shot can be used only with ranged
attacks), she can throw one additional shuriken with her
primary hand, but all of her attacks (even melee attacks) suffer
a –2 penalty. Thus, her full attack array looks like this:
+11/+11/+11/+11/+6/+1 primary hand (two must be with
shuriken) and +11/+6/+1 off hand."

My question is:

Can a monk only attacking with unarmed strikes make his main attack with an unarmed strike and then a second off-hand attack (applying the rules and penalties for two-weapon fighting) with another unarmed strike?

Can the same monk make a flurry of blows using only unarmed strikes and then an extra off-hand attack with an unarmed strike?

Reading the FAQ I know that if the monk uses a special monk weapon (for example a sai) as his main weapon he can do off-hand attacks with unarmed strikes or another special weapon in the other hand but I do not know if the same applies if he is attacking only unarmed.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Can the same monk make a flurry of blows using only unarmed strikes and then an extra off-hand attack with an unarmed strike?

Per the PHB, no - "There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed."

Per the FAQ, yes, since apparently there is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed, unless they choose to strike unarmed as an off-hand attack.

-Hyp.

 

[frozeen]

Why?

Why would he like to do a second off-hand attack when he gets a theird attack at the full attack bonus (exkluding the adjustment for two-weapon fighting)? As I get it he would first use his two attacks with the two-weapon fighting and then a second main hand attack.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

TWF Monk

I happen to be playing a TWF Monk at the moment.. here is how it works for me counting BAB only ..

Single Attack at +4 and full strength
Flurry of Blows at +3/+3 and full strength
Flurry +TWF at +1/+1 at full strength and +1 at half strength (off-hand)

Once I get another level it would be:

Single Attack at +5 and full strength
Full Attack at +5/+1 and full strength
Flurry of Blows at +4/+4/+0 and full strength
Flurry +TWF at +2/+2/-2 at full strength and +2 at half strength (off-hand)

Why would I want to do this?
Magically High Dex and Weapon Finesse means my single attack is currently at a +10. Levels of Rogue give me Sneak Attack.
In the right circumstance I can be dealing out 3 attacks of 4D6 each, which is not bad for a 6th level Monk in a very low magic campaign.

 

[ARandomGod]

Why would he like to do a second off-hand attack when he gets a theird attack at the full attack bonus (exkluding the adjustment for two-weapon fighting)? As I get it he would first use his two attacks with the two-weapon fighting and then a second main hand attack.

He would do the off hand attack after doing all his normal attacks at normal power... well, at the appropriate power level from taking the penalty from planning an offhand attack that round.

IE one extra attack after all other normal attacks, but at 1/2 strength. Pretty good deal for many attacks. Now stack in some rogue levels.

 

[maldonuich]

I am sure it is not an interesting idea for a monk. It is only a rules question. I only want to know if I can make main-hand and off-hand strikes only with unarmed strikes. There are people defending that you cannot because you have only one unarmed strike and you cannot make unarmed strikes for your main-hand attack and then make your off-hand attacks with unarmed strikes. They say that you have to use a differente weapon. For example a sai or any other special monk weapon. and then you can do your main-hand attacks with the sai and the off-hand attack with unarmed strikes or viceversa.

 

[ARandomGod]

I am sure it is not an interesting idea for a monk. It is only a rules question. I only want to know if I can make main-hand and off-hand strikes only with unarmed strikes. There are people defending that you cannot because you have only one unarmed strike and you cannot make unarmed strikes for your main-hand attack and then make your off-hand attacks with unarmed strikes. They say that you have to use a differente weapon. For example a sai or any other special monk weapon. and then you can do your main-hand attacks with the sai and the off-hand attack with unarmed strikes or viceversa.

And the answer was, sure!

Or, as Hyp put it:

Per the PHB, no - "There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed."

Per the FAQ, yes, since apparently there is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed, unless they choose to strike unarmed as an off-hand attack.

-Hyp.

 

[Squire James]

IMO (and apparently the PHB's as well), the Flurry of Blows is EXACTLY the same as going TWF with unarmed attacks. Then some FAQ has to come along and confuse things.

I think a monk can use a weapon and an unarmed attack using the normal TWF rules... but then he has to take the TWF feats and abide by those rules. I'd say the monk can choose which rules to use... Flurry with unarmed attacks ignoring the weapon, or TWF with the weapon and unarmed attack (one being declared the primary attack). Not both.

 

[Hypersmurf]

IMO (and apparently the PHB's as well), the Flurry of Blows is EXACTLY the same as going TWF with unarmed attacks.

Well, no, that's not the PHB rules.

The PHB says there's no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed.

A monk with a pair of kamas, for example, can quite happily Flurry with one and make off-hand attacks with the other, since he is not 'striking unarmed'.

A monk with no weapons, on the other hand, cannot make off-hand attacks whether he flurries or not.

The FAQ, when it says "She can use an unarmed strike as an offhand
weapon", contradicts the PHB.

But there's nothing in the PHB to suggest that "Flurry of Blows is the monk version of TWF".

-Hyp.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I think they'd be better off saying "Flurry of blows just stacks with everything. Natural weapons, normal weapon attacks, etc etc. That's the bennie you get for having a frontline class with no armour, bad attack bonus, and a reduced weapons list. If you suck it up for 8 or so levels, you get an extra free attack. Have fun"