Monks and Spiked Chain

[Trainz]

Is it me or should monks get Spiked Chain as one of their monkish weapons ?

More than once I have seen documentaries on asian fighting monks fighting with chain. Hell, the Shaolin monks that are currently touring the world do a number with chain. I'm quite sure we know about fighting with a twirling chain because of historical monk fighting techniques.

So ?

 

[Witness]

real wprld Martial artists are also often highly skilled with scimitars, longswords, spears, and bows. I think the limited selection of special monk weapons has more to do with game balance than with simulating actual martial arts. The spiked chain is good enough already.

 

[Trainz]

I'm not talking about martial artists, but fighting monks in particular.

Yes, some RL martial arts used the long-sword, scimitar, etc...

As did other cultures warriors.

Most other cultures warriors, however, almost never used a twirling chain. That is a monkish trademark. Hence, it should AT LEAST be a monkish weapon, and an exotic one for everybody else (as it currently is).

I can understand your balance POV, although I'm not sure it would put a monk so much above the other classes in terms of raw power, since his BAB would still be quite medium, but none can deny that the flavor of the historical link (pun intended) between chain and monk greatly suffers.

 

[Witness]

Most other cultures warriors, however, almost never used a twirling chain. That is a monkish trademark. Hence, it should AT LEAST be a monkish weapon, and an exotic one for everybody else (as it currently is).

You make a good point, but the D&D Monk is not based solely on the Shaolin monks. It draw as much on Hong Kong action movies as it does on any one real world group, and in fact seems to have elements of many different monk and martial arts traditions, myths and stereotypes.

The monk;s kist of special weapons is balanced because each weapon has an inherent drawback. A number of weapons are light weapons; they can be finnesed, but do little damage. The quarterstaff does decent damage, but can't be finnessed. The shuriken is a ranged weapon, but does very little damage, and is destroyed when used. With the spiked chain, the advantages far outwigh the drawbacks, and as a special monk weapon, it is easily superior to all other monk weapons.

 

[Spatula]

More than once I have seen documentaries on asian fighting monks fighting with chain.

With spiked chains? Or with a simple length of chain weighted at both ends? I suspect the latter.

Hell, the Shaolin monks that are currently touring the world do a number with chain.

Apparently they all took the appropriate Exotic Weapon Proficiency. Perhaps it's a requirement to the Shaolin monk prestige class...

 

[Kemrain]

I'd have to agree with spatula. I studied martial arts for a while, and saw a 'whipchain' being used. It is a Kung Fu weapon, but it is bludgeoning damage, not slashing or piercing. Hell, it has long solid links and can be wrapped around your arm and used to block swords, too. It's certanly not a spiked chain, but a different weapon alltogether.

- Kemrain the Martial

 

[Trainz]

Re: Re: Monks and Spiked Chain

With spiked chains? Or with a simple length of chain weighted at both ends? I suspect the latter.

Spike chain never really existed. It is clear that the spike chain is a direct derivative from the monkish chain fighting style of RL.

Apparently they all took the appropriate Exotic Weapon Proficiency. Perhaps it's a requirement to the Shaolin monk prestige class...

Never mind...

I am not for a rule change, in order to make my ultimate monkchkin. When they introduced the spike chain in the first place, they should have made it a monk weapon, with weaker attributes. No spikes, 1d4 with reach, maybe...

T'was just an observation.

 

[Spatula]

I wasn't accusing you of being a munchkin, just pointing out that there's nothing stopping a monk from learning how to use a spiked chain on their own, and that if a group of monks are all trained in its use it could easily be explained as an organizational thing (and not a class thing). The spiked chain should not be a monk weapon, because it is 100 times better than the other monk weapons, which are all fairly unimpressive. Their benefit is that they can be used with a flurry and the monk can use some of his special abilities through them.

The weighted, non-spikey, chain (I forget the proper name) shows up in Oriental Adventures, FWIW. I believe it does d6/d6 but I don't think it is a monk weapon in OA (although OA does expand the monk weapon list).

 

[hong]

The weighted, non-spikey, chain (I forget the proper name) shows up in Oriental Adventures, FWIW.

It's called a chain.

 

[daTim]

I think a better answer might be that all the Monks weapons are either very easily concealable, or appear to be common items like farming impliments.

Kama's and Nunchuks are just modified threshers, bo's look like walking sticks, and hand axes and daggers are very common utility items that make decent weapons. Slings made great hunting weapons, and things like a Javelin or Singhaim could appear to be a pointed stick. Shurikens are very easily hidden under any clothing. I have no idea why they get Crossbows though...