Monk's Belt help

The whole exercise wouldn't change much by a starting at 16 wisdom.

Maybe it was not clear why I short-changed str, dex and cha. Str and dex are just not important when you expect to spend the majority of your time as a bear, lion, rhino etc. They all have great str and good dex scores.

Even though you will likely get great con scores as well, con is still important in base form to have HP to survive surprise attacks and low levels. Cha, well thats the usual dump stat, and a easy one for a nature oriented character.

As for feats I would expect stuff like Track (fitting), Scribe scroll (great for all those special case spells), Natural spell (that's a given), Improved initiative (nice for casters), Empower spell (boom), Craft wondrous item (for options) before a feat that will basically just improves my AC by 3.

Level 16+. Hmm thats the elemental forms you are thinking of. As far as I can see only the earth elemental form has any real potential for combat (and actually thats first at level 20 and huge form). The others are for movement, travel and scouting. Don't think you will be caring much about AC in those situations.

In general I'm not concerned about class balance much beyond 15+. IMO there is no balance at all once you hit the 8-9th level spells anyway. Spellcasters just outpowers everyone else. At this point the druid will be shapechanging into far worse things than the wildshape ability allows. Like celestials with huge natural armor bonuses and they still get to use the monks belt to top those massive AC's off with their wisdom.

While a monks belt is a very good option for a druid, its not necessarily the best option

I disagree. My example shows that the monks belt druid always has at least as good AC as the wild armor one for less gold. On top of it he gets other benefits. How is that not better?

Keep in mind that I'm not stating that the monks belt is the best AC approach for all druids in all campaigns. But it would be far better in mine and possibly many others depending on wildshape rulings, books allowed and house rules.
 
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Short changing str and dex to an extent is fine, as you said you spend most time in wild shaped form. However it can be handy to not completely neuter them... for example, you need 13 str for power attack... not all DMs will allow you to qualify solely on the basis of your wildshaped forms str. As for cha, while you may think of it as a good dump stat, druids actually benefit from a decent charisma. Higher int is good too, more skills. And in your analysis, 16 starting wisdom instead of 17 means 1 less ac.

Track in practise is a particularly useless feat for a druid... its a bonus feat when you wildshape into a (dire) wolf, amongst others. Scribe scroll.. meh, scrolls are cheap enough to buy, craft wonderous or crafts magic arms/armour are decent tho. Natural spell I agree is a given, I detest improved initiative tho.. more often than not it makes no difference at all. And even when the cases where it does help you move before an enemy, it won't always even be an advantage. And a feat that 'just improves my AC by 3' ? look at dodge, heh. Still, at the end of the day, it depends on whether you focus more on the spellcasting side, or more on the melee fighting side.

The elementals are the best example, and I can see the air elemental in particular being very useful for combat.. the whirlwind ability is particularly good. However I can't see a whirlwind wearing bracers. Dire bats may also have a problem wearing bracers, which situationally can be a very useful shape.

My example turned out differently to yours. Granted I used heavy armour, but even tho I was using a periapt anyway, spending the same gold as I did on plate/shield on belt/bracers instead would have consistantly netted me 2 less ac. And your druid with bracers/belt can never get fortification, a significant disadvantage at the higher levels.

Keep in mind that I'm not stating that the monks belt is the best AC approach for all druids in all campaigns. But it would be far better in mine and possibly many others depending on wildshape rulings, books allowed and house rules.

Well, that I agree on. Sometimes a monks belt will be better. However, not always. As such, I fail to see how its unbalanced.
 

monboesen said:
Keep in mind that I'm not stating that the monks belt is the best AC approach for all druids in all campaigns. But it would be far better in mine and possibly many others depending on wildshape rulings, books allowed and house rules.
A very fair assessment.

Two thoughts:
  • I'm disappointed it doesn't help Clrs....I play one! :)
  • Based on its value for a druid, the monk's belt probably should be higher....and that's just bizarre, BTW.
 

Diirk said:
Sometimes a monks belt will be better. However, not always. As such, I fail to see how its unbalanced.
See "Fighter's cost of a Headband of Intellect +6" for insight into what you're failing to see.
 

monboesen said:
And that’s pretty strange don't you think?

Rather contra dictionary with the special materials section. Except of course if the going rate for killing a great wyrm is a lot cheaper than I would think.

In fact it’s laughable. Just how many colossal dragons will a given world have. Enough to provide a stable source of dragonhide breastplates and full plates.

Looking at that Great wyrm reds stats I don't even think there are any people in my homebrew capable of killing one.

All in all that’s a perfect example of the fact that not all things in the books are really thought through or consistent. You have to apply some common sense to the rules. The first question that pops into my mind is why it takes a dragon the size of a baleen whale to make on human sized armor.

And that was my point. They put in a "balance rule" (i.e. a rule because they thought there was a balance problem) when a) no such balance problem exists and b) the rule they put in (size of dragon for armor) is not only ridiculous sounding, but not necessary because the cost system already handles balance for you.
 

Nail said:
See "Fighter's cost of a Headband of Intellect +6" for insight into what you're failing to see.

Thats not a very good example... of course a fighter wouldn't get a discount on a headband of intellect on the basis of it not being as useful to him as a wizard. However, noone was suggesting giving druids a discount on the monks belt, or anyone else for that matter.

And if you raise the price of the monk's belt until its NEVER the best option for anyone.... what would the point of buying it be ?

As it is, its fairly appropriate... its a good price for monks (who get extra ac, extra damage from it), and coincedentally the price still works out roughly fairly for the subset of druids that its most useful for (who just get the ac, albeit more, but not the damage)
 


On the subject of Dragon hide, I always assumed that a suit of full plate for a medium character wasn't so much made out of a single collosal dragon, but several large or huge ones, instead.
 


On the subject of Dragon hide, I always assumed that a suit of full plate for a medium character wasn't so much made out of a single collosal dragon, but several large or huge ones, instead.

Which of course is very reasonable. But the special materials section of the SRD states that a medium sized one comes from a colossal dragon (and makes larger dragon hide breastplates and full plates non-existant).

It also means that an armorsmith can apperantly buy a colossal dragon skin for a a couple of thousand gp (to make a profit by the prices of dragon hide armor). Which again indicates that you can find individuals who will hunt and kill colossal dragons for a couple of thousand gp. I wonder what risks these hardy dragonkillers would take for bigger money, say 10.000 gp. :)
 

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