Monks - feats and flurry of blows?

[evileeyore]

Actually waiting the till 3rd level isn't all that bad for the spiked chain... But Str of 10-11!?!?!? What are you thinking? Come on man give the poor bastard a fighting chance (unless you only had two good rolls and they went to Wis and Dex, then okay).

I had a Dwarven Monk with spiked chain attachment, gotta say I really liked it. My groups favorite moment was the look on my face after I stunning attacked a Dragon (it was a small Dragon) and realized exactly how high the Fort was likely to be...

 

[jontherev]

I don`t think it is a good idea to have a low Strength for a Monk. They STR Modifier can be very important...

but not as important as wisdom and dexterity imo. Heck, I'd be tempted to put Con higher than Str too.

 

[Darklone]

High dex, con, wis instead of STR

I'd go with the high dex and so too. Weapon finesse helps a lot to hit. Most monks with a mage in the party enjoy nearly permanent mage armours, so they do have nice AC, but I saw monks vs. fighter usually as the question: Does the monk succeed with stunning fist? All the more important if you use Spring Attack. As for the feat choice: You wanna go Whirlwind, you gotta choose Expertise first. Spring Attack is nice to hit a fighter with a try to stun him and move back if it does not work, but Expertise rocks. Always. Combine with Improved Disarm and with a little luck you get all your attacks and the enemy without Quickdraw has only one.

Just one question: Why do most monks chose a higher Dex than Wis? For elves, that's ok and for Weapon Finesse too ... but otherwise the Wis bonus to AC is better than the Dex bonus...

 

[jontherev]

Re: High dex, con, wis instead of STR

I'd go with the high dex and so too. Weapon finesse helps a lot to hit. Most monks with a mage in the party enjoy nearly permanent mage armours, so they do have nice AC, but I saw monks vs. fighter usually as the question: Does the monk succeed with stunning fist? All the more important if you use Spring Attack. As for the feat choice: You wanna go Whirlwind, you gotta choose Expertise first. Spring Attack is nice to hit a fighter with a try to stun him and move back if it does not work, but Expertise rocks. Always. Combine with Improved Disarm and with a little luck you get all your attacks and the enemy without Quickdraw has only one.

Just one question: Why do most monks chose a higher Dex than Wis? For elves, that's ok and for Weapon Finesse too ... but otherwise the Wis bonus to AC is better than the Dex bonus...

If you chose a higher dex over wisdom, then you made a mistake imo.

 

[Crothian]

Re: Re: High dex, con, wis instead of STR

If you chose a higher dex over wisdom, then you made a mistake imo.

It depends on the focus of the character. I'm not sure which is better for a monk. a Good Reflex save is great combined with evasion. Monks do get Still Mind which helps with many things that are will save oriented. Monks have more dex based skills then wisdom. So, that can go either way. High wisdom to help out the skills you aren't as good at, or high dex to be great at the skills you are good at. Iniative bonuses are nice when you can just wail on an opponet before he has a chance a go.

I don't think there is any clear cut winner, it depends on thew character in question.

 

[Gizzard]

I took Combat Reflexes and Improved Initiative, hoping to be able to Tumble quickly into battle and lay out death and destruction upon my foes before they could react. It hasnt really worked out, mainly because the Monk is not a massive damage dealer.

The only times I've gotten to use Combat Reflexes was on a bunch of foes that were already fleeing; too worried about other things to try and avoid Monk AoAs. Boy did I show them! Well, not really. But I punched them a couple times as they ran by.

Another thing I didnt realize when I rolled up this character (at the beginning of 3E) is how very few Feats a Monk gets. A Fighter gets more Feats than he can shake a stick at; a Monk gets 5 by level 9 if he takes advantage of being human. For things like Spring Attack, you have to carefully consider the Feat progression. Plan your Feats out and you can have Spring Attack at level 6. Do what I did and you cant get Spring Attack until level 9.

On a tangent: I dont see how a Monk can have the 13 INT for Expertise. You need DEX and WIS first of all, then STR and CON since you are going to be doing some combat. INT and CHA become your dump stats. If you are dumping a 13, well, I want you to roll up my character next time.

 

[Henrix]

On a tangent: I dont see how a Monk can have the 13 INT for Expertise. You need DEX and WIS first of all, then STR and CON since you are going to be doing some combat. INT and CHA become your dump stats.

That depends on the Monk you are creating. Not all Monks are total combat freaks

Some of the Monks I've seen have been skill based, in particular a (OA) Monk/Rogue. He looked like good fun. And then you might well want high Int.

 

[Crothian]

Monks with max ranks in Jump, Climb, Balance, Tumble, Swim, hide, move silently, and listen can be fun. All you need is to be human with a 16 Int. It's worth it.

 

[jontherev]

Re: Re: Re: High dex, con, wis instead of STR

It depends on the focus of the character. I'm not sure which is better for a monk. a Good Reflex save is great combined with evasion. Monks do get Still Mind which helps with many things that are will save oriented. Monks have more dex based skills then wisdom. So, that can go either way. High wisdom to help out the skills you aren't as good at, or high dex to be great at the skills you are good at. Iniative bonuses are nice when you can just wail on an opponet before he has a chance a go.

I don't think there is any clear cut winner, it depends on thew character in question.

They also don't wear armor and can be really screwed if caught flat-footed with a high dex, medium wis. Wisdom also boosts stunning, quivering palm DC. Improved Evasion lets them always take half damage vs. reflex saves vs. area spells. Monks get great saves anyway. But dex is good for deflect arrows. Dex is important for monks, but still not as important as a high wisdom imo. I personally would never make a monk with a higher dex than wis, but thankfully everyone is not just like me

 

[Gizzard]

> Monks with max ranks in Jump, Climb, Balance, Tumble,
> Swim, hide, move silently, and listen can be fun.

I went down this path myself because it fit my conception of what a Monk should be. Unfortunately, this bag of nimble tricks isnt as generally useful as being good at combat. Its kinda cool when you pull off some nifty, risky manuever than no one else can, but I'd trade the whole basket for something wicked like the Rogue's Sneak Attack. I'll Tumble into combat or run along a wall using Balance just for the heck of it, but thats really more for Monk "flavor" than for Monk "usefulness".

Hide and Move Silent are a different kettle of fish. The problem with them is that if you are Human then you get the skill points, but you dont get darkvision. Without darkvision, these skills are difficult to employ underground due to the light-source problem. If you think you are going to be adventuring above-ground a lot, then they are much better; if not you want to consider being a Half-Orc. ;-)

> Some of the Monks I've seen have been skill based, in
> particular a (OA) Monk/Rogue.

From a quick look, some of the OA Monks were much more diverse, interesting and flavorful than the PHB Monk. But mixing discussion of them with the Classic Monk is probably dangerous; like giving advice to a Wizard based on your experience playing a Sorcerer.

As for my Monk, I made him when 3E came out because I thought it would be interesting to play a new class. I didnt really worry about optimizing him; I just picked a bunch of Feats and Skills that I thought felt "in character" based on Chinese Martial Arts movies. But he is easily one of the least useful characters in the party; now dropping below the Bard who gained Cure Light at her last level. Although I expect (hope!) the Monks usefulness to increase again as we begin to face more dangerous spellcasters (which Monks are supposedly good against), my point is that you really should consider your Monk carefully. The class is inherently weaker than the basic classes (IMHO) and if you are not careful you'll have a character who cant do much to help the party.