Monks, Mage-Killing and SR Improving

[Pax]

That's why it's a scroll of quickened antimagic field. *shrug* Remember I specified epic levels, and the ELH has quickened spells in Staves (spell-trigger, normally a standard action to operate), which require a free action to use.

And what's more, the ELH specifically includes the ability to randomly determine metamagicked spells - Quicken is explicitly listed in Metamagic Subtables 5 through 10.

Mind you; the tables won't generate a spell with just Quicken, so you'd be looking at an 11th level spell, not 10th, if randomly generated (don't ask ME why, but, there it is ...).

So, using d%, rolls of 27-46 (11th level), 36-48 (6th level spell plus subtable Metamagic 5), 41-55 (Quicken plus subtable Metamagic 1), and 21-40 (Extend Spell) will potentially give you a Scroll of Extended Quickened Antimagic Field.

Scroll Quickened AMF are a 10 lvl spell scroll Wow

... unless scribed by someone with 10 levels of Incantatrix. Then it's only a 9th level spell. ^_^ Or a cleric with neither the Magic nor Protection domains, for whom it's now a 12th level spell (eek!).

My Dm are paranoid, when a wiz BBG see an AMF activates the contingency teleport always, then scry when the AMF goes off return with all buff complete I hate it

Your DM hasn't considered something: while in an Antimagic Field, the person he saw cast it (and anyone else around them, of course) cannot be the target of any spells or magical effects ... including (perhaps especially) scrying.

 

[Thanee]

That's why it's a scroll of quickened antimagic field. *shrug* Remember I specified epic levels, and the ELH has quickened spells in Staves (spell-trigger, normally a standard action to operate), which require a free action to use.

I see... not too familiar with the epic rules. Under the normal rules that wouldn't work.

Your DM hasn't considered something: while in an Antimagic Field, the person he saw cast it (and anyone else around them, of course) cannot be the target of any spells or magical effects ... including (perhaps especially) scrying.

Heh. I'd consider that a quite good method to determine whether the AMF is still active or not.

Bye
Thanee

 

[two]

The monk, if not an Ascetic, simply needs to have USe Magic Device, and a scroll of Antimagic Field handy. At epic levels, a scroll of Quickened antimagic field, tucked into his belt, and the quickdraw feat works.

free action, get scroll
free action, UMD ... read scroll
full-round action: charge and use Dire Charge feat to grapple and pin the mage

... inside a nice, convenient Antimagic Field.

I'm going to resist the temptation to comment on using a Monk in this way (as a very expensive 3rd rate spellcaster) which by the way breaks the core rules (one cannot quickdraw a scroll), in order to prove that a monk might be able to do something, via spellcasting, which it's quite obvious a cleric could do a millions times easier and cheaper.

 

[Newbie]

You basically need three things. Get the drop, grapple, antimagic field.
That's a pretty certain way to beat the mage.


Thanee

i agree that a grapple is a sure way to end a fight with a mage but i dont know of a character in our group that doesnt always ware a ring of freedom of movment, they are to useful to not wear.

so personaly in a serious battle i would have to assume that both characters are wearing rings of freedom of movment.

And you said there a serval spells a mage could use against a monk where evasion wouldnt matter, Im not saying there arnt but i wanted to know of some good ones so a small list would be tight.

 

[sithramir]

Am I wrong that you can't grapple and pin in the same round? And also aside from freedom of movement which any smart player would have, moment of prescience can be used I believe?

What about Tensor's Transformation? Always nice to have a high attack bonus. In fact, with that spell, the monk might not even be winning the grapple checks.

Of course the obvious Shapechange then comes to mind. Let's see....free action to turn into something with swallow whole. Theres sooo many things that can be done with that spell alone.

Hide life is broken but is a handy spell to use as well.

And somene said something about loss of HPs to death. It may not be the typical design but my wizards always have high con and at that level a +6 con item and probably at least a +2 or +4 inherent con bonus as well as uses of False Life and probably the Improved Toughness feat from complete warrior. In the epic game I played in my mystic theurge character had the highest hps in the party because of a 26 con score. It was over 200 for sure at 25th level.

So far, I've only seen grappling and antimagic fields as an option. I'm wondering how you plan on getting this antimagic field to the flying wizard? The dimension door monk ability works like dimension door so once used you are unable to do anything else that round as the spell indicates. Maybe you play that teleports and other spells don't work the same way in your game.

I suppose if you are a monk who's a race that has wings and have an antimagic field on you and you get to the wizard you might be able to win. I'm just wondering how you got close enough without the wizard seeing you to start doing something ahead of time?

However, wall of force, prismatic sphere, prismatic wall all still work in an antimagic field. It's late so i'm not creative enough to figure out how to use those to stop the flying monk with antimagic field assuming you didn't know he had it on him before he got into your area.

I'll just point out that this isn't possible with the VoP monk but is for a normal monk.

 

[Lela]

Can those spells still be cast in Antimagic?

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

This is an epic level character who is choosing a specific focus and theme. He can darn well shell out ~100,000 gp to get a custom 3 times per day AMF item.

Activate AMF while Hiding. Charge in and grapple.

It is far from a sure thing, but it is likely to have its successes. An AMF will also give the monk some measure of protection against tripping detection spells and magical retaliation if the attempt goes badly.

 

[Celtavian]

re

And you said there a serval spells a mage could use against a monk where evasion wouldnt matter, Im not saying there arnt but i wanted to know of some good ones so a small list would be tight.

Magic Missile
Horrid Wilting
Finger of Death
Summon Monster 9: Elder Elementals are real tough to beat now and can grapple better than a monk.
Gate: Summon creatures even tougher than a Elder Elemental.
Polar Ray
Energy Drain
Enervation
Wall of Force


That's just a small list off the top of my head. You can also make up your own spells and epic level spells are quite nasty as well.

 

[Thanee]

i agree that a grapple is a sure way to end a fight with a mage but i dont know of a character in our group that doesnt always ware a ring of freedom of movment, they are to useful to not wear.

That's why you need the Antimagic Field.

And you said there a serval spells a mage could use against a monk where evasion wouldnt matter, Im not saying there arnt but i wanted to know of some good ones so a small list would be tight.

Well, just about any spell, that takes out the monk with a Fort or Will save, or no save at all (like the quickened True Strike, Otto's Irresistible Dance combo... best cast by the new Dweomerkeeper to even ignore Spell Resistance, than it's a 95% chance to succeed).

Magic Missile him to death, after you have successfully Forcecaged him the second time (after he used his Abundand Step to get out).

Or just Dimensional Lock him and then follow up with a quickened Forcecage (or the other way around, quickened DL + Forcecage) so he can't even step out of the cage.

Meteor Swarm (direct hit = no save), Horrid Wilting, if you want to deal damage. Maximized of course, via rod.

Shapechange to show him who's better at grappling.
For extra fun, you could throw in a Limited Wish Divine Power.

Telekinesis... to the same effect.

And never forget the quickened Know Protections to learn of all the puny protections to choose the right method.

The list goes on almost infinitely.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

This is an epic level character who is choosing a specific focus and theme. He can darn well shell out ~100,000 gp to get a custom 3 times per day AMF item.

Activate AMF while Hiding. Charge in and grapple.

It is far from a sure thing, but it is likely to have its successes. An AMF will also give the monk some measure of protection against tripping detection spells and magical retaliation if the attempt goes badly.

He has the Vow of Poverty feat. Look at Pax initial arena-post.

And just to repeat, in my first post here, I already mentioned the AMF as pretty much the only method for the monk to have any chance of success (against a reasonably intelligent high-level wizard). No argument, AMF kills mages, if one gets the drop on him. Of course, the mage has by far the better methods to discern the danger and will more likely be the one prepared, not the monk.

Bye
Thanee