Monks, Mage-Killing and SR Improving

[Darklone]

And there's always a Clone hidden somewhere...

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

And just to repeat, in my first post here, I already mentioned the AMF as pretty much the only method for the monk to have any chance of success (against a reasonably intelligent high-level wizard). No argument, AMF kills mages, if one gets the drop on him. Of course, the mage has by far the better methods to discern the danger and will more likely be the one prepared, not the monk.

True, true.

I will just add that my measly mid-level Wizard has been known to Silent Dimension Door and Silent Teleport when necessary. His Concentration is good enough that grappling does not interfere with his spellcasting -- these are V only spells.

Unless you can succeed with the Stunning Fist four times in a row, Vow of Poverty is not the way to go.

 

[Pax]

Am I wrong that you can't grapple and pin in the same round? And also aside from freedom of movement which any smart player would have, moment of prescience can be used I believe?

Yes, you are indeed wrong. If you can full attack (which is possible on the first round, either due to having Pounce from your race, Dire Charge as an Epic feat, or the benefits of the Lion's Charge spell), you can not only initiate the grapple, you can continue it with further iterative attacks.

Freedom of Movement is somewhat arguable in application to a Grapple, mind; I don't think it is near to being balanced to allow it to give you outright immunity to an entire class of attacks.

Woudl you allow a 4th level spell to make you utterly immune to an entire specific category of weapons?

What about Tensor's Transformation? Always nice to have a high attack bonus. In fact, with that spell, the monk might not even be winning the grapple checks.

The wizard wants to cast TT? Fine - so much for casting ANY other spells, and the Monk will be abetter melee fighter than the Wizard. Assuming a 20th level wizard and a 20th level monk - more of the monk's resources will have been spent on combat-oriented magic items than will be the case with the wizard. Add to that Greater Flurry of Blows, and a decidedly pro-combat slant in feat selection in favor of the monk ... and a Wizard that goes TT on the first round when facing off against a monk is dead meat.

Of course the obvious Shapechange then comes to mind. Let's see....free action to turn into something with swallow whole. Theres sooo many things that can be done with that spell alone.

Greater flurry from inside ... where the Wizard can't do anything back. And there's always the antimagic field, which prevents that (and almost any other) spell from working.

And somene said something about loss of HPs to death. It may not be the typical design but my wizards always have high con and at that level a +6 con item and probably at least a +2 or +4 inherent con bonus as well as uses of False Life and probably the Improved Toughness feat from complete warrior. In the epic game I played in my mystic theurge character had the highest hps in the party because of a 26 con score. It was over 200 for sure at 25th level.

All that, and a mere 1d4 hit die. Temporary hitpoints don't stack. And ... let's see, from my own current stable of 25th level characters:

Demetian, a Druid/Shifter/Warshaper with a predilection for Bone Ooze (engulfe and yank their skeleton out, hehehe): 318hp.

Kadan Mor, a very evil-aligned Mineralised Human (mineral warrior template, Underdark) Fighter/Disciple of Dispater: 436hp.

Thardosch, a Half-dragon/Half-ogre natural WereGiantCrocodile grappler: 447hp. I didn't have to go monk with him, 'cause his natural weapons were already doing better damage than he'd get from Monk levels anyway - he's a fighter/warshaper.

Xiathon, a drow Paladin of Tyrranny / Drow Judicator: 339hp.

So, how is "just over 200" ever going to be the most hitpoints available?

So far, I've only seen grappling and antimagic fields as an option. I'm wondering how you plan on getting this antimagic field to the flying wizard?

Half-celestial or Half-fiend monk. Flight as an (Ex)traordinary ability. And Fly hardly has enough duration to be in effect CONSTANTLY, so please don't assume it is.

I suppose if you are a monk who's a race that has wings and have an antimagic field on you and you get to the wizard you might be able to win. I'm just wondering how you got close enough without the wizard seeing you to start doing something ahead of time?

Depends entirely on the encounter range - the basic assumption here is "a mage-killer monk and a wizard of any sort encounter each other unexpectedly; neither is ESPECIALLY prepared for that particular encounter, only having such measures operating already, as are regularly in effect". Or, a flying monk/shadowdancer at dusk or during the night, using Hide in Plain Sight. *shrug*

However, wall of force, prismatic sphere, prismatic wall all still work in an antimagic field. It's late so i'm not creative enough to figure out how to use those to stop the flying monk with antimagic field assuming you didn't know he had it on him before he got into your area.

Antimagic Field doesn't have a visible effect, unless there are other, visible, pre-exisitng magics in the area, which can reveal the Field's extend by being suppressed by it.

Prismatic sphere MIGHT (if the monk's saves aren't as stellarly good as even an un-magically-augmented monk's saves typically are) give the monk pause, if the wizard wins the initiative toss or is more than a single monk-speed charge away.

This is an epic level character who is choosing a specific focus and theme. He can darn well shell out ~100,000 gp to get a custom 3 times per day AMF item.

Rune of Widened Antimagic Field (3/day) (spell level 9, caster level 17, market price 183,600gp. ^_^

He has the Vow of Poverty feat. Look at Pax initial arena-post.

The Exodus is specifically crafted to produce fair fights, IOW, ones not stacked in favor of EITHER player from the get-go.

Outside of the Exodus, I would expect to be part of a PARTY, and would have possible magical support from other casters. Or, I wouldn't go the Vow of Poverty route, and would have the items of Antimagic.

Of course, the mage has by far the better methods to discern the danger and will more likely be the one prepared, not the monk.

That's a huge assumption, and not a proven one IMO.

 

[Artoomis]

Once again, I ask for this to come back to the topic, how to increase SR.

Specifically, is there indeed a feat in MotW for this? If so, which feat is it?

 

[Lela]

SS has one but I'm not sure if it only improves racial SR. BoED has one but only works against evil creatures. BoVD has one but only works against good creatures.

As it stands, if you're already taking VoP, get the one that works agianst evil creatures. You'll have the 11 bonus exalted feats to fill up. And I'm sure you could create epic exalted SR feats as well.

 

[Artoomis]

SS has one but I'm not sure if it only improves racial SR...QUOTE]

What's "SS?" And, while we are at it, can anyone help with the name of that feat?

 

[Lela]

SS has one but I'm not sure if it only improves racial SR...QUOTE]

What's "SS?" And, while we are at it, can anyone help with the name of that feat?

Savage Speicies. I'd have to look at the book for the feat name when I get home.

 

[Artoomis]

Savage Speicies. I'd have to look at the book for the feat name when I get home.

Thanks. I figured out it was Savage Species, but, unlike most other books, I could not find a feat list for this one. I guess it's not as popular, or maybe it's just that most of its feats are not for PCs..

 

[Thanee]

Monks and Mage-Killing

Once again, I ask for this to come back to the topic, how to increase SR.

Since we all know, that his is not going to happen...

Please, continue the discussion here: Monks and Mage-Killing

Bye
Thanee

P.S. I've checked SS - either I am blind, or the feat isn't there.

 

[Lela]

Hmmm, maybe I was thinking of Turn Resistance.

Honestly, though, it wouldn't be hard to make one. Giving +2 per time the feat is taken or something like that. Wouldn't be a big deal unless you took it a lot. And even if you did you'd miss out on plenty of other abilities. It's D&D incarnate.

Anyone see unbalance? It could be dropped to +1 if needed.

[Thannee, I assume you're refering to the dicussion not pertaining to the above?]