Monster Design--from a designer's standpoint

[Nellisir]

Within the admitedly poor framework of types (though I like the concept of types)

The problem with types in 3e was that they conflated what the monster -did- with what the monster -was-.

I'll agree that some had a rather narrow-minded view on monster design. All you needed to do was expand the rules, not be constrained by them. What I'm seeing now is that 4e has open the shutters of the windows that blinded people within the 3e framework. I never thought those shutters were there in the first place.

Well said.

 

[FunkBGR]

Orcus - this is awesome. Like most others have said, your enthusiasm is infectious.

I know I've already made up some monsters, trying to convert monsters from previous adventures, such as The Night Below and Age of Worms adventure path. It's looking like Undead don't need any cheap abilities to up their BAB, Saves or anything like that.

I'm loving what I got so far, and totally agree that everything is looking much easier this time around.

 

[Orcus]

The recharge mechanic, as I understand it, is just a clever name for a probability. In other words, recharging on a 5 or 6, means a 33.3333% chance of using the ability. It's absolutely no different from saying 25% (other the the value of course). It essentially does away with the d100 and changes it to a d6, but the nature of the beast remains the same. There's no reason you can't implement a similar system for 3e monster design, or in any other system of your choice. I also fail to see why you say you can't reflect this in 3e. Reading through this threat I'm quite confounded by your view of 3e monster design.

Pinotage

I see what you are saying, and I agree to some degree. You could simulate the recharge with a percentage roll in 3E. BUT percentage rolls are strongly disfavored as a design idea. Look through the MM. How many percentage rolls do you find?

What I am trying to say is that I can capture the mechanics of the catoblepas with the "core" way of doing things without having to resort to a clunky "not core but this is really the only way to do it" mechanic.

I like that about 4E.

I'm not saying you CAN'T do it in 3E. I am saying you can do it more easily, elegantly and with a core mechanic (if that is the right phrase) in 4E.

 

[PeelSeel2]

Orcus,

Here is the conversion I am using for the first encounter in 'The Wizards Amulet'. I used a Human berserker level 3 brute and a Gnoll level 6 brute stats respectively, and made the abilities up based on 3e descriptions and damage. It was fun, easy, and FAST! I am liking this! Reminds me of old school monster making. JUST MAKE IT!! This should be an extremely challenging encounter with a good chance of at least 1 death, but also a good possibility of no deaths.

Young Leucrotta Level 3 Brute
Medium Shadow Beast
Initiative +2 Senses Perception +1, low light vision

HP 56 ; Bloodied 28

AC 14, Fortitude 14, Reflex 13, Will 13
Str +4 Con +4 Dex +2 Int +1 Wis +1 Cha +2
Skills: Hide (+10)

Speed 8

Natural Camaflauge +5 Hide

m Piercing Bite (standard, at-will)
Reach 1, target: 1 creature, +6 vs Reflex, 1d6+4
The leucrotta comes in close and bites through shield and armor, rending armor and flesh.
Effect: (Hit) Enemy at -4 ac, and bleeding 5 per round, save ends both. (Miss) No effect.

M Retreating Double Kick (standard, at-will)
Reach 1, Target: 1 creature, +4 vs AC, 2d6+4
The leucrotta turn spins to run and kicks hard with it's two hind legs.
Effect: (Hit) Target Stunned, save ends, Slide 4 squares. (Miss) Slide 4 squares
------------------------------------------------------------------
Mother Leucrotta Level 6 Brute
Large Shadow Beast
Initiative +5 Senses Perception +7, low light vision

HP 84, Bloodied 42
AC 18, Fortitude 18, Reflex 15, Will 15
Str (+8) Con (+5) Dex (+5) Int (+2) Wis (+5) Cha (+3)
Skills: Hide (+13)

Speed 8

Natural Camaflauge +5 Hide

Mezmorizing wail (encounter, charm)
+5 vs Will, Range 20, Burst 2
A leucrotta can mimic the voice of a man, woman, child or domestic animal in pain. This is used to draw a victim into attack range
Effect: (Hit) The luecretta has drawn victim to within 5 squares and the encounter starts with Luecretta having combat advantage, and first turn. (Miss) Victim is drawn within 10 sqaures and notices ambush. Roll initiative normally.

m Piercing Bite (standard, at-will)
Reach 1, target: 1 creature, +11 vs Reflex, 2d6+8
The leucrotta comes in close and bites through shield and armor, rending armor and flesh.
Effect: (Hit) Enemy at -4 ac, and bleeding 5 per round, save ends both. (Miss) No effect.

M Retreating Double Kick (standard, at-will)
Reach 1, Target: 1 creature, +9 vs AC, 2d6+8
The leucrotta turn spins to run and kicks hard with it's two hind legs.
Effect: (Hit) Target Stunned, save ends, Slide 4 squares. (Miss) Slide 4 squares

 

[Stalker0]

The main thing this replaces is the "recharge in X rounds" mechanic, like dragonbreath.

3e:The dragon breathes! He will breathe again in...3 rounds! DM flies dragon out of range for 3 rounds.

4e: The dragon breathes! Next round, the DM rolls. A 6! The dragon can breathe again, and will as soon as its optimal.

By making it a round-by-round check, you avoid the problem of the DM 'knowing' when the next time to use a powerful ability will be. Each round, the DMs toolbox of tactical options chances.

An excellent point, and in a similar vein to what they are doing with the death and dying rules. While 4e characters will know it will always take at least 3 rounds before their death saves kill them, its more random than "I'm at -3, I have 7 rounds everyone)"

 

[Saitou]

I think the Retreating Double Kick should be vs Reflex. And sliding even on a miss seems a bit too much. Maybe only slide 2 on a miss?

 

[PeelSeel2]

I think the Retreating Double Kick should be vs Reflex. And sliding even on a miss seems a bit too much. Maybe only slide 2 on a miss?

I thought at first it should be against reflex too, but then for encounter purposes, what does the -4 ac do? I thought it complimented that ability with keeping true to 3.x version of the monster.

Slide 2 would make sense. Because it did not hit and get that extra oommph from pushing off from somebody.

 

[keterys]

Having effects on misses is mostly something for daily powers... in fact, you statted the monster up with PC style powers, and you really probably shouldn't have. At the very least, there's just a lot of extra text there that doesn't need to be.

Stunned (save ends) and slide 4... at-will... is just mean. Heck, I don't even like stunned (save ends) at all, cause it can stop you from taking any action from multiple rounds.

Mesmerizing Wail is just odd, too. They notice ambush, without a check? You determine the range that they walk up to you, etc? How about it can just wail and people can react accordingly. Also, as an encounter power it can use it in combat, but it refers to ambush and rolling initiative

 

[Orcus]

Regardless, I am loving 4E monster desing. It is better and more elegant than 3E monster design. From a designer's standpoint.

 

[PeelSeel2]

Having effects on misses is mostly something for daily powers... in fact, you statted the monster up with PC style powers, and you really probably shouldn't have. At the very least, there's just a lot of extra text there that doesn't need to be.

Stunned (save ends) and slide 4... at-will... is just mean. Heck, I don't even like stunned (save ends) at all, cause it can stop you from taking any action from multiple rounds.

Mesmerizing Wail is just odd, too. They notice ambush, without a check? You determine the range that they walk up to you, etc? How about it can just wail and people can react accordingly. Also, as an encounter power it can use it in combat, but it refers to ambush and rolling initiative

It will work fro my campaign and I do not have to make money off it.