I think your snark detector is broken. I am genuinely interested if the game is fun at high levels. But I want actual informed opinions based on play through a variety of levels, not an off the cuff judgement based on an inaccurate skim of the rules.
D&D 5E (2014) Monster Manual and Players Hand Book Power Levels
- Thread starter sgtscott658
- Start date
I think your snark detector is broken. I am genuinely interested if the game is fun at high levels. But I want actual informed opinions based on play through a variety of levels, not an off the cuff judgement based on an inaccurate skim of the rules.
ThirdWizard
First Post
What I find really funny about this topic is that this exact same thing is happening in the upcoming World of Warcraft expansion. Numbers are being scaled down dramatically in order to create a more linear curve. Now, power levels in WoW aren't changing, so there's no effective difference. But, some people just like to look at their character stats and see big numbers, so for some there's a general feeling that they aren't as powerful.
I find it fascinating to see this topic on D&D 5e after all these months of complaints for WoW.
I find it fascinating to see this topic on D&D 5e after all these months of complaints for WoW.
sgtscott658
First Post
really? So cantrips are not powerful huh? If you have played 5E which I doubt, you will find the classes and powers in 5E to be pretty high on the power scale. A gibbering Mouther with an AC of 9 is toast in 5E heck my blind senile grand mother could hit a gibbering mouther without breaking a sweat. Im not an engineer or an accountant so numbers to me are meaningless. Its how the game feels and that I think is the point you are missing.
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad
You keep acting like numbers are flavor. WTF are you talking about? There is nothing more or less bland about a 5 rather than a 2. The flavor doesn't come from numbers, it comes from stuff surrounding numbers, and 5e has a LOT of that stuff. It's not even more "crunchy" to have a 5 instead of a 2. Again, just numbers, no real meaning there, it's the same friggen rule either way (apply X modifier). It's not "more crunchy" if the number is different.
You should try it before deciding. Right now, your analysis looks very shallow. Take a look at legendary creatures in legendary terrain, and tell me it's not epic.
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Sacrosanct
Legend
So what if it's AC is 9. Seriously folks, there is a A LOT more to monsters than base stats. This isn't directed at only you, because I see people doing this all the time. It's like you (general you) only look at AC and damage per round and then leap to some conclusion about the monster without actually seeing the monster in actual play. That's why your last sentence seems so ironic to me. You're flat out saying you don't care about the numbers and you care about actual play, but your entire gripe is based on #s you see and not actual play
The GM is a giant blob, so it makes sense it's easy to hit. However, it's got a ton of HP for a CR2 creature, and locks people around it down, allowing it to munch and crunch. It is not a weak creature because it's AC is so low. You absolutely have to take everything about the monster into the right context, or you're (again, general you) just being lazy and doing your argument a huge disservice.
the Jester
Legend
Bounded Accuracy seems to be pretty nifty in my view. And I am looking forward to it. But I still think you are all crazy when you post stuff like 20th level characters will only have +2 swords and three or four other magic items. Every edition has had either +5 or +6 weapons available and encumbrance rules were created for a reason because loot happens and stacks up. While I am for Bounded Accuracy as it seems like a really smart move I can't imagine a D&D campaign without weapons of +3 (or higher). I guess this maybe easier to gauge once the Dungeon Master's Guide is out. Even without +5 weapons--loot happens.There will be magic abounding.
I am guessing that you didn't participate in the playtest, in which magic boni on weapons and armor only reach +3- and those are artifacts.
Once my players are 15+, I will probably bring back a few (very few) things such as the +5 holy avenger etc.
The most powerful sword in the cosmos/homebrew is Oriflamme, a +6. Been floating around as a legend for years (82?) so I'm not getting rid of it for bounded accuracy.
But lets be honest, does a legendary sword that never saw play other than a plot device affect bounded accuracy. Nah.
Even in my 1st edition games, the top end that players reached was +3 and such. (oops, except for the +5 defender....)
So this bounded accuracy is fitting into both my gameplay and my worlds expectations. I'm good to go.
The most powerful sword in the cosmos/homebrew is Oriflamme, a +6. Been floating around as a legend for years (82?) so I'm not getting rid of it for bounded accuracy.
But lets be honest, does a legendary sword that never saw play other than a plot device affect bounded accuracy. Nah.
Even in my 1st edition games, the top end that players reached was +3 and such. (oops, except for the +5 defender....)
So this bounded accuracy is fitting into both my gameplay and my worlds expectations. I'm good to go.
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Just curious what you consider to be epic about 3.5 that 5e is missing?
steeldragons
Steeliest of the dragons
Quite clearly, from the OP, it's about the numbers.
This is simply a problem of perception: "bigger numbers = more heroic/epic" and/or "kewlerz" and/or "more badazz."
In 3.5 that may well have been so. In 5e it's not...though I see no reason why having heroic/epic characters, battles and adventures, of any edition, is dependent on numbers, at all.
Leading to -or "stemming from", it's unclear- the other root perception issue: "3.5 [or ANY edition or other game system, for that matter] was like this so 5e should do it too"...a, let's just say, "mistaken" equivalency that "3.5 [should] = 5e." Which it does not nor, I would add, has any reason to.
Not getting the "feel" one wants from the numbers as presented in the game system is not the game's problem that requires fixing.
sgtscott658
First Post
The fact that when you say Dragon or Devil, players actually cringed at the very thought of even going up against such creatures. In 5E with high powered cantrips, class super powers, not a problem anymore. Oh and if I kick dirt into that demons face I get an advantage right?
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