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Monster Manual Errata

JLXC

First Post
/Rant On/

I can't believe the incompetent crap we have to put up with as consumers. It's enough to make me just stop buying WOTC products. The Eratta is MORE screwed up than the damn stuff it is supposed to Fix. How incompetent does one need to be to do this "quality" of work? Seriously? I know I, and 99.99 percent of You, would get fired if we did a report or some such with such a slew of errors... but some people have the gall to suggest "it's normal in the business". My ass it is. It's unprofessional and pathetic all in one. Seriously, the "proof reader" for this and many other things should immediately resign or be fired. You are NOT DOING YOUR JOB AT ALL. Why should anyone keep someone so incompetent on the payroll? Myabe if they fired some of these folks, the next folks in line would work harder to do it Right?

/Rant Off/
 

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kreynolds

First Post
Iku Rex said:
They didn't fix the "Improved Grab" description. Right now it doesn't work the way the Sage says it should work. (In fact, it doesn't make any sense at all.)

Hmm...I didn't realize there was any confusion as to how Improved Grab works. Seems pretty darn straight-forward to me.
 

Crothian

First Post
kreynolds said:


Hmm...I didn't realize there was any confusion as to how Improved Grab works. Seems pretty darn straight-forward to me.

I'm with kreynolds on this one. I've yet to have problems with it at all.
 

Shard O'Glase

First Post
JLXC said:
/Rant On/

I can't believe the incompetent crap we have to put up with as consumers. It's enough to make me just stop buying WOTC products. The Eratta is MORE screwed up than the damn stuff it is supposed to Fix. How incompetent does one need to be to do this "quality" of work? Seriously? I know I, and 99.99 percent of You, would get fired if we did a report or some such with such a slew of errors... but some people have the gall to suggest "it's normal in the business". My ass it is. It's unprofessional and pathetic all in one. Seriously, the "proof reader" for this and many other things should immediately resign or be fired. You are NOT DOING YOUR JOB AT ALL. Why should anyone keep someone so incompetent on the payroll? Myabe if they fired some of these folks, the next folks in line would work harder to do it Right?

/Rant Off/

While I generally agree that it sucks when you get shoddy products or error filled products I'm going to disagree with your assement of people getting fired and it not being normal in the business. The more I work in a profesional field the more convinced I am the absolute incompetance is not only accepted it is expected in day to day work.
 

twjensen

First Post
Need more D&D players.

As with anything else, the quality goes up with the # of consumers. If there were as many D20 players as their are moviegoers, you'd see huge budgets and more professional product. Fact is, a good portion of the employed population is completely incompetent. Sorry, just the way it is. So to get good product you have to have salaries that attract the competent and allow the removal of the incompetent.
 

twjensen

First Post
D20 Owls

Forrester said:


You think that's bad, check out the Owl's advancement.

1HD to 1HD makes them go from Tiny to Medium.

It's true, it's true!

We've been talking about the exact same thing (errata'ing the errata) in the General RPG thread.

We should probably talk some brave moderator somewhere into combining them and then closing one of them.

D&D Owls have a supernatural version of the blowfish ability. They can poof themselves out from tiny to medium size by sucking in massive amounts of air. They use this ability to scare off predators. :D
 

CRGreathouse

Community Supporter
Re: D20 Owls

twjensen said:
D&D Owls have a supernatural version of the blowfish ability. They can poof themselves out from tiny to medium size by sucking in massive amounts of air. They use this ability to scare off predators. :D

But animals don't get supernatural ablities!
 

Iku Rex

Explorer
kreynolds said:
Hmm...I didn't realize there was any confusion as to how Improved Grab works. Seems pretty darn straight-forward to me.
From the Improved Grab description (SRD): "The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the improved grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it suffers a -20 penalty to grapple checks, but is not considered grappled itself; the creature does not lose its Dexterity bonus to AC, still threatens an area, and can use its remaining attacks against other opponents."

So, a creature using improved grab can take a -20 penalty to its grapple check in order to not be considered grappled. Ok.

Then you get a paragraph about damage dealt after a successful grapple check.

Then, in the middle of the last paragraph: "The creature is not considered grappled while it holds the opponent, so it still threatens adjacent squares and retains its Dexterity bonus. It can even move (possibly carrying away the opponent), provided it can drag the opponent’s weight."

So, a creature using improved grab is never considered grappled. (The words in bold above do not in any way mention a -20 penalty, and comes after several rules that apply to all grapple attacks/checks.) Why take the -20 penalty? To be able to use "remaining attacks against other opponents"? (The only thing not repeated from earlier in the description.)

The intent, according to the Sage (IIRC) is that a creature is indeed "considered grappled" unless it takes that penalty, but that's not what the text says.
 

Magus_Jerel

First Post
Originally posted by twjensen
D&D Owls have a supernatural version of the blowfish ability. They can poof themselves out from tiny to medium size by sucking in massive amounts of air. They use this ability to scare off predators :D

Yeah - animals don't get supernatural abilities...
so...
It's an extraordinary ability :D

On a more serious note -

People made a few boo boos in the game design - sure. However, I haven't seen any deadly serious flaws.

Now - when you put a million dollars on the line, it gives somebody a whole lot of incentive to FIND flaws. Magic the Gathering is one of the biggest WotC products out there - and that game is where the "words" used really start to count... deadly serious. Even with that much money around and on the line for the world title, every now and then - R&D at WOTC makes a mistake. Fortunately D and D is not a "win/lose" game - unless you make it one.

Now - if you put as much money around the D and D game as you did MtG - that would start up some serious rules lawyering - but it would up the "quality" of the products a bit as far as the need for errata. I would rather put up with the errata - and the questions of this board - than the rules lawyering pressure that surrounds the MtG game.

What I would like to see - is fewer "class" books". Using the Greyhawk setting as a method of "presentation", and some books should have spent more time in research and deveopment Sword and Fist and its kin most notably.

I would also like to see hardback copies - not softcover. Hardback books cost a bit more - but they also have more development behind them - and I myself would rather spend 35 dollars on a high quality rulebook - than 20 dollars on a mediocre one. Wether or not that is the majority opinion spoken in terms of sales - I don't know; I don't work for WOTC.

Considering all you NEED to play is the Players Handbook - and someone with a DMG and a MM, the game works quite well at its core - and it should stay that way. I don't want to HAVE to have 50 books to play one game. People have enough trouble managing two books and a catalouge of bad guys as is.

If you want your advanced high powered setting - FRCS and the related accessories is the way to go.

MotP and Deities and Demigods should - I hope - do a good job of fleshing out how to make your own world.

High level campaings, and Monster Manual II have potential, especially since WOTC seemed to linearize the "power level" of things. I think the key is getting magic and magical powers to those classes who don't necessarily use it all the time -

Fighters, Barbarians, and Monks could use some help at higher levels. Paladins and Rangers need better spells - and spell selection.Rogues and Bards need some tweaking to a lesser extent - considering what Bards and Rogues can do with that use magic device skill at the upper levels.

With a total bonus of 20 or more to the Use Magic Device skill - the Rogue and Bard can use scrolls consistently - not blow themselves or the party up - and in this fashion hold their own with the right "bag o tricks".
 

green slime

First Post
This game is completely unplayable at the moment, given the amount of faulty errata. In fact, I don't think it should stop at firing people for being this incompetent. They should be hung, drawn and quartered for forcing this trash upon an unsuspecting D20 population.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
green slime said:
This game is completely unplayable at the moment, given the amount of faulty errata.

That's odd. A huge number of us have been playing highly satisfactory games for many months, even with the ocasional faulty errata. Please sir, tell us how it is we have been so gravely mistaken. We must be making some grevious errors, to be actually having fun playing an "unplayable" game...
 

green slime

First Post
Umbran said:


That's odd. A huge number of us have been playing highly satisfactory games for many months, even with the ocasional faulty errata. Please sir, tell us how it is we have been so gravely mistaken. We must be making some grevious errors, to be actually having fun playing an "unplayable" game...

LOL

Ever hear of IRONY? I was posting regarding a certain other's RANT.
 


rankarrog

First Post
Or what about the following:
"p. 218, col. 2, Replace existing text with the following:
Feats: Same as the character. When in hybrid or animal form, the lycanthrope gains any feats a normal animal of its form has. A natural lycanthrope has the Improved Control Shape feat as a bonus feat (see the sidebar). Lycanthropes in hybrid or animal form have additional feats as set out in the table below."

Besides they have included the sentence "A natural", theres still no sidebar which describes this feat, D'oh :)

I wonder who gets paid for this work ;D
 

dcollins

First Post
JLXC said:
/Rant On/
You, would get fired if we did a report or some such with such a slew of errors... but some people have the gall to suggest "it's normal in the business". My ass it is. It's unprofessional and pathetic all in one. Seriously, the "proof reader" for this and many other things should immediately resign or be fired. You are NOT DOING YOUR JOB AT ALL. Why should anyone keep someone so incompetent on the payroll? Myabe if they fired some of these folks, the next folks in line would work harder to do it Right?
/Rant Off/

Well, frankly, it's occurred to me that they released (a) the Monster Manual errata and (b) a revised Official D&D FAQ at the same time, I believe 3 business days after all the firings last week, right? So it's quite possible that important people involved (compilers, editors, proofreaders) were in fact fired and shoved what they had on their desks out at the last minute as a noble gesture to the community.

Be careful what you wish for. I don't think WOTC's in the position to re-fill in any proofreader positions that they may be cutting at the moment.
 

Forrester

First Post
Bumpity-bump-bump

Any other additions? Is someone writin' all of these down? :)

I think there were more in the General Discussion Forum thread of a similar nature . . . going to have to hunt it down.
 

porch

First Post
Something needs to be done with shadows. Their ability to reduce your hp to your str score is ridiculously munchkin, especially considering they only need a melee touch attack to hit.

Either their CR needs to raised, or some of their abilities curbed. I dunno, just my opinion.
 

Dreaddisease

First Post
As to the person who wrote about spending more time on movies compared to books because of the amount of population actually involved I must say this. Have you seen rollerball? Have you listened to the dialog in Star Wars Episode II? These are just awful (though I did like Episode II) and they had plenty of money and plenty of time to do it right. The idea of accuracy and refinement in our products is not a question of what we deserve but what they give us and what we buy up. Quality of product is something we must demand. I agree with the rant. Jobs should be on the line when it comes to quality. And yes I work in a the 'professional' world and have come across countless situations where acceptance of mediocre or all out awful work is the norm. Heck, the first person to create our companies website spelled pedestal 5 different ways on the same page. But when it comes to the actual deliverables from our company, quality is something that your job hangs on.

Demand quality products. I love the reviews on enworld because it is a response to their deliverables.

So rise up and demand more. And when they provide quality products (i.e. Manual of the Planes, Revised Star Wars Core Rules) then buy it up and support it. Believe me, the business world hears when you speak. You are the customer.
 

VorpalBunny

Explorer
Re: Re: Monster Manual Errata

EOL said:


Wow they still have a 17, at this point I may have to ask the sage what the rational for that is... Besides thier innate charm and good looks. :D

Errata from the Sage: A hill giant's charisma should be 7.

I guess they're not that charming... :D
 

Bonedagger

First Post
Re: D20 Owls

twjensen said:


D&D Owls have a supernatural version of the blowfish ability. They can poof themselves out from tiny to medium size by sucking in massive amounts of air. They use this ability to scare off predators. :D

Actually it is a defence against the owls natural enemie.. Big snakes. The owls special defence is activated instinctively whenever it becomes pinned. The result is often a lockdown between the snake and the owl. The snake can't swallow the owl but refuses to let go. Such a situation can last several days. Research show, however, that the position of the owls head can have an effect on the outcome. It also explains why the owls often try to get into a position where their heads turn away from the snake.

A sign of spring down south is often the spotting of flying featherballs. It is at this time when many young hatchling snakes will go out and try to hunt owls for their first time. Unfortunately the young snakes are not big enough to hold on to the owls. Since the owls uses a natural gas they produce to blow themself into a featherball, it also means that they will drift away without anything to hold them down. This is when the perfomer at the fair knows it is time. Soon the snakes will have reached the right size. That is when they are strong enough to hold on to the owls but not heavy enough to hold them down. The perfomer will now collect "featherballs" with the right size of snakes. He will then sell them to the children visiting the fair for 1 copperpiece per featherball. A child holding a featherball down by grasping the snakes tail is a sign of joy and celebration in many southern communities.

-Bonedagger
 
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