Monster Manual II and III: Both worth getting?

[John Morrow]

Right on Ninja-to!! I used to live in Tokyo and played D&D. Alas, finding other games was extremely difficult sometimes.

Hmmm. I had little trouble finding English-speaking gamers in 1999. Not only is there JIGG (which I recommend as an contact souce) but I also managed to find a group at Sophia University via RPGnet. I also know of role-players around Nagoya. Did you ever find JIGG? And it helps to keep an eye out on the Internet for people who say that they are in Japan.

Anyway, if you are looking for a good gaming shop in Tokyo, check out Yellow Submarine in Shinjuku. Just a short walk from Shinjuku station's Minami-guchi. Last time I was there about three years ago, they carried all the WotC stuff and a fair amount of other d20 stuff. Be prepared to pay about 1.5 to 2 times US cover price in Yen equivalent. English language RP games are an imported niche item that appeal to a small segment of an already small market.

When I was living in Tokyo in 1999, I also found a decent selection of American RPGs at (I think) Shosen Bookmart in/near Jimbocho and a small selection of American RPGs at a hobby store in one of the Parco buildings (Parco 3?) in Shibuya. Not sure if they are still there, though.

 

[philreed]

As a total monster junkie

Count me in the monster junkie column. But, unlike some others, I enjoyed MM3. I didn't think the errors detracted a thing from the fun, weird monsters.

If you're in the market for a monster book I recommend you give Denizens of Avadnu a try. It's packed with weirdness and is a beautiful book.

 

[philreed]

Sometimes I wish I could download individual pages from RPG books. I'll take page 23-26,37,49,82 of this, and page 45,78-81, and 119 of that...

Welcome to the power of PDFs, the future of gaming. This is exactly why Ronin Arts produces so many $1-$2 PDFs -- so that people can pick and choose exactly what they want.

 

[Gez]

Well, I have Monster Manual, Revised Monster Manual (aka MM 3.5), MM2, MM3, Fiend Folio, Monster Compendium: Monsters of Faerûn, Tome of Horrors, TOH2, Creature Collection, CC2, and CC3. (Plus many, many books with heavy monster content, like Oriental Adventures, Manual of the Planes, Psionics Handbook, or Strange Lands: Lost Tribes of the Scarred Lands. I'm just listing pure bestiaries here.)

Of those, the most used have been MM & revised version, CC (but it cheats because it's one of the oldest monster sources I have), ToH, and FF.

Only I (or another DM in my group) haven't used yet is CC2.

 

[Henry]

To me, the MM3 was the first of the monster books that matched the feel of the Monster Manual, in breadth and style of critters offered. Whereas I found maybe 10 monsters I had any interest in between the Fiend Folio and MM2 combined, I might can think of THREE creatures from MM3 that DIDN'T spark my imagination. Great book, and with an upper range of CRs that complement the MM greatly, with its majority lower range of CR.

 

[Mystery Man]

I like both but, I'm giving the nod of superiority to the MMIII

If there is going to be a MMIV I would like to see nothing but CR15 and above creatures in it. There are too many low CR monsters out there.

 

[Shade]

To me, the MM3 was the first of the monster books that matched the feel of the Monster Manual, in breadth and style of critters offered. Whereas I found maybe 10 monsters I had any interest in between the Fiend Folio and MM2 combined, I might can think of THREE creatures from MM3 that DIDN'T spark my imagination. Great book, and with an upper range of CRs that complement the MM greatly, with its majority lower range of CR.

Interesting...I had exactly the opposite reaction. I found the MM3 to be terribly uninspiring. The only ones that really inspired me (other than the reprinted yugoloths and living spell template) were the deathshrieker, death giant, omnimental, redcap, slaughterstones, and ssvaklor. By way of comparison, I've actually used about a third of the Fiend Folio monstes in my campaign, and would consider using nearly all of the rest. I quit counting after 20 of the number I've used from the MM2.

This is purely speculation, but from reading various posts on the monster books, it seems like the following traits determine which books you'll like:

You'll like the MM2 if:

• you are running a high-level campaign
• you were a 1E D&D player and recognize most of the monsters
• you really groove on templates
• you play in the Realms, Greyhawk, or Spelljammer

You'll like the MM3 if:

• you are running a low- to mid-level campaign
• you are new to D&D in 3E
• you play in Eberron
• you prefer your monsters "native"
• you don't mind if your monsters aren't statistically accurate

You'll like the FF if:

• you are running an extraplanar campaign
• you like outsiders
• you are a fan of Planescape
• you really like to tinker with monsters, adding templates, grafts, symbionts, and prestige classes
• you are a stickler for the monsters to be statistically accurate

 

[The_Universe]

I definitely prefer the MM3 to MM2 and Fiend Folio. It's seen a great deal more use (despite being out for a much shorter time) than either of them.

That being said, my rankings for them would be as follows:

MM3
FF
MM2

So many of the monsters in MM2 just seem...silly. YMMV.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

By the way, many people have mentioned the "error-prone" nature of the MM3.

This is true.

However, if you look at the errata file for it, you'll notice exactly what kind of errors we are generally talking about.

Page 31: Conflagration Ooze (updated 2/25/05)

Changes to the stat block for the conflagration ooze:

Armor Class: 22 (–2 size, +14 natural), touch 8, flatfooted 22
Skills: Climb +18, Hide +12, Listen +6, Move Silently +12

The conflagration ooze gains a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks.

Changes to the stat block for the infernal conflagration ooze:

Armor Class: 21 (–2 size, –1 Dex, +14 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 21

Changes are highlighted. In other words, the ooze's climb skill modifier was off by 8, and in both cases the AC was off by a couple of points (1 point, in the case of the infernal ooze).

We are not talking about game-breaking errors, here. We're talking about a couple of AC or Attack points or a couple of skill points.

 

[TerraDave]

For monster books, I'd give MMII a miss. I recently sold mine.

MMIII I can't speak too, but I'm awfully happy with Denizens of Advadnu (Inner Circle Games) and Tome of Horrors II (Necromancer Games) for creepy crawly goodness. Both have been excellent purchases. Also, take a look at Complete Minions from Bastion Press,also excellent. Compete Minions and Denizens of Avadnu both have full color art if that interests you.

YES: Tome of Horrors I and II are both worth getting.

Not sure about availability in Tokyo, maybe as pdf (I know Necromancer has been putting stuff on drive thru rpg)