Monster Manual IV - an ongoing review

[MerricB]

But that's just three (and one of them is called githyanki ).

See my section in the review above. The list is actually: Drow, Githyanki, Gnoll, Lizardfolk, Ogre, Orc & Yuan-Ti.

The classes are only occasionally "standard" classes. Drow has ninja, scout, fighter/wizard and cleric 8; ogre is scout, tempest and mindflayer thrall.

Looking at the Ogre entry, it breaks down as follows:

Page 109: Statblocks for Ogre Scout and Ogre Tempest
Page 110: Statblock for Ogre Guard Thrall, plus strategies & tactics.
Page 111: Sample Encounters (1 column), Ecology
Page 112: Ecology (continued), Society, Ogres in Eberron & Faerun, and Ogre Lore.

The Orc entry:
page 114: Orc Berserker, War Howler
page 115: War Howler (continued), Orc Battle Priest
page 116: Orc Plague Speaker (lot of description of role & tactics)
page 117: Half-Orc Infiltrator
page 118: Sample Encounters, Ecology, Orc Loree
page 119: Society, Orcs in Eberron & Faerun

Cheers!

 

[Thanee]

Make it seven then (and on of them is...), some of them are already thoroughly covered in other books (like the drow in Lords of Darkness or yuan-ti in Serpent Kingdoms; ok those are FR books, though).

The page breakdown is very useful. Thanks!

Bye
Thanee

 

[GQuail]

Good advice.

That it is.

....

Aw, hell.

 

[Psion]

It appears to be a retort to your remark about why WotC "should act so scared of" including psionics. They have little to gain by including or excluding it. You and others in this thread may love psionics, but it turns a lot of folks off completely

Therefore, since it doesn't appeal to you, it's inelligible for inclusion.

This has (thankfully) not been the attitude of WotC of late. They have included sidebars for psionics in multiple general supplements, and they have supported things like warlocks and incarnum in subsequent supplements as well.

Tending to as wide a swath of your audience as possible is a Good Thing(TM).

 

[BryonD]

That it is.

....

Aw, hell.

Good gaming.

 

[MerricB]

Additional Options
One nice thing about MMIV is that it calls out in the contents page the elements that can be used by PCs: monsters that can be summoned, created, or used as familiars or mounts. Although this may be used by players and their characters, they're equally - if not more so - useful to the DM. Having the list easily accessible is an excellent addition to the format.

There are also five "sample lairs" in the body of the book. These are maps with keyed descriptions of the locations, though not of monsters or treasure to be found there. I find these to be less successful; I would prefer not to see them in future Monster Manuals.

The Lesser Monsters and Other Flaws
Although I like most of the monsters in the book, there are times when I wonder what the designers were thinking. Did we really need the Zern, a bunch of aberrations that sculpt other creatures into horrid forms? (Eberron already has such creatures).

Did we need the Sailsnake, a flying snake that sprays venom? Well, it can be taken as as animal companion, so I guess it has a point. It's just that at 2 pages for a CR 2 creature, one begins to feel this is overkill. I enjoy the longer format for monsters that have the depth of play (and recurring play) to warrant it. For a monster that is basically a one-shot encounter - look, it's an animal - it's too much.

The Spawn of Tiamat, with their goals and organisation warrant the space they take. The Sailsnake doesn't, and it feels like padding.

This feeling of padding is there for the better monsters as well. I feel that starting each monster on a new page does have a drawback - a monster that should take 1-1/4 pages is instead drawn out to two.

The most egregious mistake comes in the Lore sections. Whilst the text of the Knowledge skills in the PHB and the text in the MMIV indicates that the DC of these checks is determined by the Hit Dice of the monsters, instead, they all use the CR of the monsters! Oops. In fact, I prefer the checks to be determined by CR, but it's not what the rule is.

 

[Shade]

I finally had a chance to take an in-depth look at a friends' copy, and I'm still not sorry I haven't bought it. Beyond the obvious disappoint of the inclusion of classed MM monsters, the non-psionic githyanki, the large amount of space wasted on dragonspawn, and the lack of any updated monsters, here are but a few of the disappointing aspects of the monsters included.

The new fiends bug me the most. First, the new yugoloths don't feel much like yugoloths. From the abandonment of their always used naming conventions (-"loth" or -"daemon" for you old-schoolers) to the lack of common yugoloth powers (neither has the summon ability, which even the lowly skeroloth possesses, for example), these guys just don't feel like yugoloths. Add to the fact that the corruptor of fate only advances by class level, and it might as well be a generic extraplanar humanoid. Outsiders can advance by class levels; however, they nearly always advance by Hit Dice. Sure, that rule isn't written in stone anywhere, but it definitely detracts from the creature feeling like a yugoloth. The flavor text doesn't present much more of a case for them to be yugoloths. About the only thing that they have in common with other yugoloths is their home plane and mercenary nature. The voor is much better; granting it a more appropriate name (I believe Shemeska recommended "vooroloth", which works) and a summon ability, and you've got yourself a yugoloth.

On to the demons...

While I have no problems with non-tanar'ri demons (I love those obyriths and loumaras), 3 of the 4 listed under the demon entry are not members of any of these three groups. This makes them difficult to fit in.

Starting with the deathdrinker...how does this thing continue to thrive in the Abyss? With its superiority complex and lack of powerful special abilities, it should be extinct by now with the vast numbers of tanar'ri that wouldn't suffer its attitude. It brings very little benefit to the table, and its ecology section really only points out why it doesn't care for the tanar'ri's concerns...not why they'd put up with it for one minute. At least they seem to have some sort of role "in Faerun". And here we have yet another fiend that only advances "by class"...ugh. But it's biggest problem is its use of Quicken Spell-Like Ability (greater teleport), which figures prominently into its strategies. As a 7th-level spell, this is impossible. Quicken SLA only allows up to 6th-level spells at CL 20th.

Next up is the kastighur. Now this is a demon done right...a good mix of abilities, an appropriate role in the ecology of the Abyss...no qualms here.

And now things take a turn for the worse again. The nashrou's one defining ability is a weakness...vulnerability to criticals. This seems like an excuse to let them dish out far more damage than usual for a CR 2 creature with reach and nearly four times as many hit points as any other demons of its CR. So your party either gets a lucky hit or dies. Thanks to the new improved critical/keen/etc. not stacking rules, the odds are that the nashrou wins. And at CR 2 the spellcasters don't have flight yet, so everyone's on the ground, and doubtfully outrunning its 50 ft. base speed.

Whisper demons are neat creatures with interesting abilities...but nothing in their entry seems to really indicate why they are demons. Perhaps there was a demon quota to be filled?

Now we come to the are-they-or-aren't they wrackspawn. First, they aren't listed in the demon category. If they are demons, that's annoying (much like the chain golem in the MM2 listed away from the rest of the golems). The lore states that a wrackspawn is "a minor demon". and a "demonic footsoldier", so I suppose that makes them demons. At CR 3, they appear far less deadly than the CR 2 nashrou. The well-written flavor text redeems them, though.

Many of the creatures in the MMIV have sections that describe at what level of summon monster they can be summoned. While I applaud the return to this form, what happened to the MMIII mandate that any additions to the summon monster list must have another creature removed? For example, permanently removing the babau from the list to add the arrow demon? Like I said, I prefer the MMIV method, but a little sidebar might have been nice to explain that we're going back to the old ways.

Finally, the Lore DCs really bug me. As Merric pointed out, they switched to a function of CR rather than HD, which once again creates rules inconsistency and confusion. I also dislike the fact that the lowest check result reveals all type and subtype traits. While I'm fine with players learning that a creature is an outsider and has darkvision 60 ft. and doesn't need to eat or sleep, I don't like the fact that the lowest result reveals that a tanar'ri has immunity to electricity and poison, resistance to acid 10, cold 10, and fire 10, the ability to summon others of their kind, and telepathy. That's way too much info for the lowest result, especially when the immunities of simpler creatures can't be learned until the 2nd-highest or highest result.

There are some interesting creatures in this book, but overall I'd still call it a colossal disappointment.

 

[carmachu]

You had me sold at elemental avatars.....I hope to get it by monday via amazon....

 

[Shade]

Merric, I just went back and read your take on the fiends...we're almost as completely in disagreement as possible! At least we both liked the kastighur. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.

 

[Pants]

While I have no problems with non-tanar'ri demons (I love those obyriths and loumaras), 3 of the 4 listed under the demon entry are not members of any of these three groups. This makes them difficult to fit in.

Ignoring lame abilities, they are chaotic, they shouldn't be so quick to fit into the standard subtypes, they shouldn't be so easy to 'fit in.' With 666 layers of the Abyss (more probably) a few more untyped demons makes a certain amount of sense. Even accounting for the untyped demons in MMIV there really aren't that many out there in 'official' publications.

Merric, I just went back and read your take on the fiends...we're almost as completely in disagreement as possible! At least we both liked the kastighur. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.

The deathdrinker IS pretty lame, not many potent abilities at all, plus some incongruous flavor equals a pretty damn lame critter.

Actually, the only fiend in MMIV that I like is the Nashrou and I don't know why I like it so.

The Avatars of Elemental Evil (on the writeup on the religion) more than make up for the overall dissapointing fiends IMO.