Monster Manual IV needs errata before its publishing?

[Hypersmurf]

Naaah.

It's a simple mistake, nothing more.

You're complaining that a creature proficient in bastard sword demonstrating use of the 'proficient in bastard sword' feat is a mistake...

-Hyp.

 

[calypso15]

It's not a bloody mistake.

Monstrous Humanoids are proficient with any weapons included in their entry. It doesn't say what kind of proficiency. Just based on that, I would assume they gain ALL proficiency. Including EWP. If not, then they could hardly be said to be proficient in bastard sword. And, since their stat block is not including a non-profiency penalty, one would conclude that it has to be EWP.

Calypso

 

[saucercrab]

I wouldn't allow it. It's not a martial weapon, so the feat does not exist. It can be used as a martial weapon, but it isn't one.

-Hyp.

The FRCS has an NPC with Martial Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword): Sahbuti Shanardanda, page 155. Even lists it as "Martial Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword, two-handed)". It wasn't errata'ed. (And I only remembered this as it seemed an oddity. Why spend a feat to only get martial proficiency? Definitely not a min-maxer. )

On topic, are there any monster entries, in general, that list an Exotic Weapon Proficiency as a feat, bonus or not?

 

[glass]

Are you saying that I can't take the feat Martial Weapon proficiency: Bastard Sword?

I wouldn't allow it. It's not a martial weapon, so the feat does not exist. It can be used as a martial weapon, but it isn't one.

I'd allow it, but I agree with Hyp that it's not strictly RAW.

Why would anyone want to, though? If you can only use it in 2 hands anyway, why not go with a greatsword?


glass.

 

[glass]

Monstrous Humanoids are proficient with any weapons included in their entry. It doesn't say what kind of proficiency. Just based on that, I would assume they gain ALL proficiency. Including EWP. If not, then they could hardly be said to be proficient in bastard sword. And, since their stat block is not including a non-profiency penalty, one would conclude that it has to be EWP.

There is no non-proficiency penalty for a bastard sword, if you don't have the EWP you can't used it one-handed at all.

Could you use it two-handed without the martial weapon proficiency, taking the penalty? Intersting question; I'm not sure.


glass.

 

[Egres]

I'd allow it, but I agree with Hyp that it's not strictly RAW.

Why would anyone want to, though? If you can only use it in 2 hands anyway, why not go with a greatsword?

Exotic Weapon Master?

Maybe you are limited only to some feats (example: the Binder and its bonus feats), and you want to use one of those bonus feats to get some benefits of that PrC.

 

[Egres]

The table doesn't indicate any armor, but the text indicates that they sometimes do.

Monstrous humanoids are "Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types." The text describes them as sometimes wearing light armor.

Would you consider an ogre who takes off his hide armor to lose proficiency with shields, because you are now describing him as not wearing armor?

-Hyp.

If it's not in the stats, it's not proficient.

That's what the RAW state.

By your reasoning, every monstrous humanoid could be proficient with every armor, since he can get an armor from somewhere.

 

[Egres]

I would say no. But he could spend one more feat on EWP to gain that proficiency.

-Hyp.

So, are you saying that a charactetr that has all the MWP is not proficient with all martial weapons?

By your reasoning, a fighter could wield a bastard sword two handed without penalties, while a bard that spent thousand of feats in every single MWP in the game could not.

That's illogical.

If I'm proficient with all the martial weapons the game has, I'm proficient in all martial weapons.

Plain and simple.

I can't really see how you can argument the opposite. :\

 

[calypso15]

So, are you saying that a charactetr that has all the MWP is not proficient with all martial weapons?

By your reasoning, a fighter could wield a bastard sword two handed without penalties, while a bard that spent thousand of feats in every single MWP in the game could not.

That's illogical.

If I'm proficient with all the martial weapons the game has, I'm proficient in all martial weapons.

Plain and simple.

I can't really see how you can argument the opposite. :\

Bastard Sword isn't a martial weapon. You can USE it as one, but it isn't one. Therefore, no MWP feat for it.

Calypso

 

[calypso15]

Not to mention, why are we even arguing that point? That has nothing to do with the OP.