Monster Manual IV needs errata before its publishing?

[Infiniti2000]

It's a simple mistake, nothing more.

If it's so simple, why does it deserve a thread devoted to it?

 

[saucercrab]

Bastard Sword isn't a martial weapon. You can USE it as one, but it isn't one. Therefore, no MWP feat for it.

Calypso

Yes it is. See post #23.

 

[Numion]

Yes it is. See post #23.

Core rules trump over sourcebooks. So if the core rules say something and additional books something else, go with the core.

 

[saucercrab]

Core rules trump over sourcebooks. So if the core rules say something and additional books something else, go with the core.

That's cool.

So, where do the core rules state that a bastard sword can't be chosen for the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat? :\

 

[Infiniti2000]

So, where do the core rules state that a bastard sword can't be chosen for the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat? :\

Read posts #6 and #10.

 

[Kieperr]

Bastard Sword isn't a martial weapon. You can USE it as one, but it isn't one. Therefore, no MWP feat for it.

So there is no martial weapon proficiency for the dwarven urgrosh either? It is an exotic weapon as well and when used by a dwarf is treated as a martial weapon. So a dwarven cleric cannot take Martial Weapon Proficiency (Urgrosh, Dwarven). Not even if he takes the War domain and his god has the urgrosh as a favored weapon, which grants Martial Weapon Proficiency withthe god's favored weapon.

The bastard sword description from the SRD states:
"Sword, Bastard: A bastard sword is too large to use in one hand without special training; thus, it is an exotic weapon. A character can use a bastard sword two-handed as a martial weapon."

By this description, using this weapon one handed requires an exotic weapon proficiency and this is what makes it an exotic weapon, but when using it two handed it is used as a martial weapon so Martial Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword) does exist. If not, then it could not be used two handed at all.

 

[saucercrab]

Read posts #6 and #10.

Neither of those posts answer my question; they are extrapolations, which are negated by the appearance of an official NPC that has Martial Weapon: bastard sword.

Also, the (revised) Living Greyhawk deities .PDF has deities whose favored weapon is a bastard sword & have the War domain (Kelanen & Mayaheine); it lists the favored weapon as bastard sword (m), where the "m" indicates martial. So those clerics that take the War domain would have Martial Weapon: bastard sword.

So again, where do the core rules state that a bastard sword can't be chosen for the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat?

 

[KarinsDad]

Imagine a character that takes every single MWP in the game, wasting an impressive amount of feats.

Would he be proficient in the bastard sword?

I would say no. But he could spend one more feat on EWP to gain that proficiency.

I think he meant: "Would he be proficient in the bastard sword two handed?"

If a Fighter proficient with all martial weapons is proficient with the bastard sword two handed, it seems reasonable that a Two Handed Bastard Sword Martial Weapon Proficiency feat exists.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Neither of those posts answer my question; they are extrapolations, ...
So again, where do the core rules state that a bastard sword can't be chosen for the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat?

They are not extrapolations. The two quotes from the rules are:

From MWP: "Choose a type of martial weapon."

From Sword, Bastard: "...it is an exotic weapon."

The fact that "A character can use a bastard sword two-handed as a martial weapon" does not make the weapon itself martial. You cannot choose a non-martial weapon for MWP.

Now, is it a bad thing to allow MWP (bsword)? No, not at all. I see no problem with allowing that as a feat.

 

[Cam Banks]

I think he meant: "Would he be proficient in the bastard sword two handed?"

If a Fighter proficient with all martial weapons is proficient with the bastard sword two handed, it seems reasonable that a Two Handed Bastard Sword Martial Weapon Proficiency feat exists.

Especially since a sorcerer can't use it as a martial weapon at all, given that he only has proficiency in simple weapons. Or rather, he can, but he'd suffer non-proficiency penalty. There has to be an intermediary step for this to work, which is what MWP bastard sword would be. Nobody in their right mind, of course, would that that unless they couldn't somehow take EWP bastard sword (or got it as a bonus feat, such as with the War domain).

Cheers,
Cam