Monster Manual: What details?

[mach1.9pants]

I like some of that, but 7 pages on a single monster (and 5 being story) is a bit too much for me.

Fair enough, only a few iconic monsters are like that. Most are two pages like this

http://www.kenzerco.com/free_files/sturm_wolf.pdf

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Lets see,your a lets say fighter,youve spent years learning your craft.Your ready to go out into the world and go adventuring.
But before you go your master gives you as vague an idea as possible
of the monsters you were going to be facing,so you could better survive?

EVERY single warrior would be 100% famillier w/ about 90% of the monsters they were going to face,to the point were only an illistation will do
keep all those extra words away from me!

What about the 99.9% of all the other PCs that aren't in such a position? What about warriors that don't have such knowledgeable masters/trainers or perhaps PCs that have to learn this stuff from scratch? What if 1st level means just starting out rather than knowing 90% of the weirdest and strangest creatures out there? And more importantly, what about actual players and DMs who want a book that they can sit down and read to enjoy or get ideas from? The perfect Monster Manual needs to accomplish so many things.

My idea on this is the polar opposite to yours I think.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[the Jester]

Doesn't every monster in the 4e PHB have a good picture?

Presuming you're talking about the MM1 (not the PHB ), I'm not sure off-hand about it in particular, but in modules, where you have tons of unique monsters, you've also often got a serious neglect in describing those unique monsters.

Several other books full of monsters fail to give you pics of everything- I think both Open Grave and Draconomicon have several examples, for instance.

 

[Mattachine]

Every module for 4e that I have with unique monsters has pictures.

In any case, the 4e MM wasn't that great, I agree, and neither was the 1e MM, by the way.

The best, I believe, was in 2e--balance of stats, description, and background.

 

[the Jester]

Every module for 4e that I have with unique monsters has pictures.

Picking E2 off my shelf and turning a few pages, I find:

"5 sewer revenants", which I would assume to be undead, but when reading the description I find they are an ooze.

The next several encounters are all monsters I've got pics of somewhere, though, or at least most of them are, so maybe I'm remembering it being worse than it actually is.

 

[Glade Riven]

I'm more interested in good descriptions of monster ecology - their place in the (generic) world, common habits, etc - than detailed physical description. Besides, making sure your descriptions match the art is an editorial thing; easier to fix the text than change art that has already been approved.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Doesn't every monster in the 4e PHB have a good picture?

I hated when I was given a brief description with no picture at all. That happened in BECMI, 1e, and even 3e (at times). Please, have pictures.

My favorite is still the invisible stalker picture in the monstrous compendiums ala 2nd edition. Hilarious.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Why wouldn't you show the picture?

Because sometimes you don't want to 'name' the mosnters and by providing a descriptions you can set up atmosphere and mood whereas a monster illustration pretty much gives it away after the first time.

 

[the Jester]

Because sometimes you don't want to 'name' the mosnters and by providing a descriptions you can set up atmosphere and mood whereas a monster illustration pretty much gives it away after the first time.

Actually, this brings up a good point- I hope the art isn't labeled with clearly visible monster names for the players to see when you show them the pic. Talk about spoiling the mystery!

 

[I'm A Banana]

I want a Book of Interesting Encounters.

So, I want them to support the Three Pillars. I want traps and hazards for exploration. I want organizations and beasts and neutral parties "good guys" for interaction. I want horrible monsters and implacable villains combat. Weather effects. Lairs. Terrain.

I want "creatures" that fill these roles, too. Like, how ear seekers and rust monsters are essentially traps and hazards.

I want them to be described so that I know how to run an encounter with them, whichever of the three pillars I use (so I know that rust monsters are mostly exploration challenges -- what happens if the PC's decide to kill it, or if they decide to try and domesticate it?; or orcs -- fight 'em, deal with 'em, and raid their camp, I need to know how to do all of that). I want plot threads, dangling hooks, and possible unique twists. I want allied creatures (do goblins domesticate wolves? do orcs hang out with giants?).

I want stats that can answer me three basic questions: what can this thing do if it is an adversary? what can this thing do if it is an ally? what does this thing do when the PC's aren't around?

I like the aspect of 4e making monster generation easy peasy, and making variants something very simple to do. I like the 2e aspect of extensive lore for each critter. I like the 3e aspect of critters for all the different pillars. I like the 1e aspect of weird critters.

I don't just want a directory of stats (this is why the internet has Search). Every entry needs to inspire me to use it, and give me what I need to use it. I need a Book of Interesting Encounters, not just an Encyclopedia of Things to Kill for XP.