D&D 5E (2014) Monster Tactics: Avoiding Fireballs

[Reynard]

Campaign dependent. Ultimately, that isn't something you derive from other factors; how you choose to display this is a strong tool to demonstrate exactly how magic works in your setting.

Those don't seem mutually exclusive.

 

[DEFCON 1]

The magic system in D&D is built and set up from a game perspective for a small group of adventurers. The system is not designed with plausibility in the game world from a narrative perspective.

In other words... the game does not work as a simulation for military conflicts within a living, breathing world. If it did... if the living, breathing world was known to have spellcasters within armies that could throw Fireballs up to 150 feet at opposing forces each and every round for several rounds at a time... the living, breathing world would have already done the magical research necessary to defend said forces from those spells at an applicable spell level-- probably via larger 'protection from energy' type umbrellas or shield defenses.

The game does not include these types of defensive military combat spells because the assumption is the small group of adventurers will protect themselves via magic items or individualize protection spells. But to think that a magical military world would not do the requisite R&D necessary to protect thousands of foot soldiers from conflagration due to the rain of dozens of fireballs every round is silly.

It's the same exact reason why medieval city and castle construction would never have actually proliferated in any magical D&D type world the way we play it. When elementals, giants, rocs, dragons etc. etc. etc. can all walk over, walk through, fly over, or out-and-out destroy walls and stonework with ease... no society would ever build or defend their cities or residences in the way real-world medieval society did. Everything would be magically generated and built and protected to withstand oversized kaiju creatures or spellcasters who are able to shape/destroy the defenses we take for granted in the real-world.

 

[TwoSix]

Those don't seem mutually exclusive.

Not sure what you mean. How high or low level magic is in a setting is ultimately a world-building decision. You use that to determine how you play the monsters.

What you're really trying to determine here is how widespread magic is in the setting, and if the knowledge of its working is something that even uncivilized creatures would understand how to counter.

 

[Oofta]

The magic system in D&D is built and set up from a game perspective for a small group of adventurers. The system is not designed with plausibility in the game world from a narrative perspective.

In other words... the game does not work as a simulation for military conflicts within a living, breathing world. If it did... if the living, breathing world was known to have spellcasters within armies that could throw Fireballs up to 150 feet at opposing forces each and every round for several rounds at a time... the living, breathing world would have already done the magical research necessary to defend said forces from those spells at an applicable spell level-- probably via larger 'protection from energy' type umbrellas or shield defenses.

The game does not include these types of defensive military combat spells because the assumption is the small group of adventurers will protect themselves via magic items or individualize protection spells. But to think that a magical military world would not do the requisite R&D necessary to protect thousands of foot soldiers from conflagration due to the rain of dozens of fireballs every round is silly.

It's the same exact reason why medieval city and castle construction would never have actually proliferated in any magical D&D type world the way we play it. When elementals, giants, rocs, dragons etc. etc. etc. can all walk over, walk through, fly over, or out-and-out destroy walls and stonework with ease... no society would ever build or defend their cities or residences in the way real-world medieval society did. Everything would be magically generated and built and protected to withstand oversized kaiju creatures or spellcasters who are able to shape/destroy the defenses we take for granted in the real-world.

How many high level casters are there? Yes, the 2-3 fireballs per day might make a bit of a dent in an army, potentially taking out 40-some low level troops with each casting. But the spell is also line of sight which means that the moment a wizard casts the spell they open themselves up to a volley of arrows.

What defense would you need other than a few dozen archers at the ready? It's not like a single wizard is going to take out more than a few dozen troops. If casters are common enough that they can make a difference against an army then odds are the attacking army will also have casters with counterspell at the ready.

Most giants could do a significant amount of damage to castle walls. Just like all sorts of siege equipment from catapults to trebuchets could. Except those siege engines are probably more difficult to "kill" and have greater ranges.

Yes a kaiju could show up. So? There's one tarrasque and it is supposed to be the equivalent of a nuclear war. I also think there would be the equivalent of anti-aircraft guns (anti-dragon ballista?) which is something I add to my world. If elementals, etc, are common enough then it's a pretty high fantasy world and there will likely be powerful NPCs to counter them.

Beyond that, I personally do assume magical defenses that are not necessarily in the book. This was more of an issue in previous editions when a rock to mud spell could take out a castle from a distance, but just because spells aren't explicitly spelled out in the PHB does not mean that it does not exist. Spells in the book are just spells appropriate to adventurers, spells that for the most part can be cast in a matter of seconds.

Last but not least ... D&D isn't a reality simulator. Shocking, I know.

 

[Reynard]

Not sure what you mean. How high or low level magic is in a setting is ultimately a world-building decision. You use that to determine how you play the monsters.

What you're really trying to determine here is how widespread magic is in the setting, and if the knowledge of its working is something that even uncivilized creatures would understand how to counter.

What I meant us you CAN derive the answers from what's in the books and use that to inform your world building.

What 5e left up to the DM that 3.x tried to codify is the demographics of classes characters, which means how common any given setting element is depends entirely on the given campaign. Dragonborn might be a playable race, for example, but from a world building perspective it matters quite a lot whether they are widespread with nations and empires of their own, or whether they exist in a single shangri la with a population of a few hundred.

As it relates to the question at hand, going off the core books as written, I think the implicit setting is high enough magic that even orcs have casters among them and know that such enemies are likely to exist. If they are raiding a target or facing an enemy they would suspect of having casters among the enemy, they would certainly use tactics that both tried to mitigate the damage potentially done by those casters and also eliminate them as quickly as possible.

In other words, if a small group of heavily armed vagabonds come advancing toward the orc stronghold, the orcs are going to aim for the holy symbols and pointy hats first.

 

[TwoSix]

What I meant us you CAN derive the answers from what's in the books and use that to inform your world building.

Ahh, my apologies. That's completely orthogonal to my interests so I'll leave you to it.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I don't usually have so many spellcasters in the setting that anyone would take them into account.

 

[Reynard]

I don't usually have so many spellcasters in the setting that anyone would take them into account.

So like "Game of Thrones" level of the fantastical? (just asking for clarity)

 

[MarkB]

Fireball: Promoting social distancing since 1974.

 

[Krachek]

Magic is rare and mysterious since everybody use it.