D&D 5E Monsters charming PCs during combat

[jayoungr]

While I allow PCs and NPCs to voluntarily fail a save, I don't think 5e allows it by RAW.

In the case of the calm emotions spell, 5E explicitly allows it by RAW.

 

[Maxperson]

In the case of the calm emotions spell, 5E explicitly allows it by RAW.

Hrm. I don't think that one has been used yet in my game. I wasn't aware that the spell was written to allow it.

Looking at the spell, I don't have an issue with it or the voluntary save failure. It's a 2nd level spell overriding one specific 1st level spell/effect, so that seems kosher to me. And it lasts 1 minute and is concentration, so it could end well before the fight is over, and definitely before the charm is over, which then reasserts itself.

 

[MarkB]

Me again. I have a question about how monster charm abilities interact with the calm emotions spell. The text of the spell says, in part, this:



I have a couple of questions about this. First, if a creature is charmed, would it logically want to fail the saving throw? I worry about PCs voluntarily failing the save for metagame reasons.

Second, does this make it too easy for a high-level PC to get out of a vampire's charm ability? I do think the vampire ability is potentially a bit OP, but this seems a bit OP in the other direction.

It's a tough call on the deliberately failing a saving throw, but I'd say it would be entirely plausible if the caster presents it reasonably. The thing to remember about Charm effects specifically is that, while they give the target a new sense of loyalty to the caster, they do not override the character's existing loyalties. They will still consider their party members to be allies, close friends even, so if the cleric is casting what they claim to be a beneficial spell at them, they've got no reason to try and resist it.

Regarding it making things too easy, it is a fairly low-level spell to be countering Charm effects, but it's also one with limited utility aside from that, so it's not one that the party will necessarily pack on any typical day. If they do so in response to knowing what they're going up against, that's good planning.

Plus, is only suppresses the charm, it doesn't remove it, and it's a Concentration spell with a one-minute duration. It'll help the character out for the duration of one combat, but it leaves the caster unable to use any other Concentration spell, and may make them the focus of the opposition's attacks. And if two PCs are charmed, there's no way to help them both.

So basically, it is a solution, but it has enough downsides not to be too easy a solution.

 

[jayoungr]

Regarding it making things too easy, it is a fairly low-level spell to be countering Charm effects, but it's also one with limited utility aside from that, so it's not one that the party will necessarily pack on any typical day.

You might think that, but I've got a Glamour Bard who always prepares it. Player is playing the same character in about 4 different games right now, and every version of the character has the spell every day.

 

[Maxperson]

You might think that, but I've got a Glamour Bard who always prepares it. Player is playing the same character in about 4 different games right now, and every version of the character has the spell every day.

Then it's a wasted spot the vast majority of the time. If he's rewarded every once in a while when a charm happens, great. Knowing how limited charm really is, I'd have a different spell prepared myself.

 

[robus]

Charm person says, "The Charmed creature regards you as a friendly acquaintance. " Not "...as your best friend". Charm gets a foot in the door for conversations to happen, but does not override other concerns

Vampire Charm feature is different from charm person.

 

[Maxperson]

Vampire Charm feature is different from charm person.

While that's true, it still doesn't override anything else. The rest of the party are also still trusted(probably) friends to be heeded and protected. At best the spell will create a conflict in the PC that will require some roleplaying.

 

[Jd Smith1]

1. Heck no! Charm is the double barrel saw off shot gun of monsters attacks.

You mean it's outdated, ineffective, and grossly over-hyped by people who don't know what works?

 

[Asisreo]

You mean it's outdated, ineffective, and grossly over-hyped by people who don't know what works?

No, he means it's doomguy's weapon of choice. Charm and Seduce, until it is done

 

[Inanity]

If you run it by the book, do you find that this leads to combats ending in a TPC (Total Party Charm)?

Poaching this one