Monte Carlo versus "The Math"

[keterys]

If you want to shake up the math, you can always make it guardian instead of battlerager. Should drop the survivability a solid chunk, make the thing run faster, etc.

For clarity, there's literally no math disparity for attack/ac at 8th level. Anyone who claims it's a big deal at that level just doesn't understand the math. (Ie, monsters have gained +7 attack/AC, PCs have gained +7 attack/AC... 4 level, +1 Stat or MW, +2 Enh)

You're also going to be slightly hard pressed to prove that expertise isn't meaningful by survivability numbers. After all, there's another argument that monsters don't increase enough in damage as they level up too

 

[Elric]

To add to keterys's point about a Guardian fighter being a better test: Battlerager fighters were introduced in Martial Power, and then almost completely rewritten in the June rules update. It's strange to avoid including recent material but include the (entirely new) BRV fighter.

 

[Truename]

If you want to shake up the math, you can always make it guardian instead of battlerager. Should drop the survivability a solid chunk, make the thing run faster, etc.

To add to keterys's point about a Guardian fighter being a better test: Battlerager fighters were introduced in Martial Power, and then almost completely rewritten in the June rules update. It's strange to avoid including recent material but include the (entirely new) BRV fighter.

I'm happy to switch to a Guardian fighter, if people think it's more representative of the pre-Expertise math. I'd love for the sim to run faster, too, and reducing combat length is the easiest way to do that. I want to avoid having to go back and code a lot of new powers, though.

If that's the way to go, just let me know what needs to be changed.

 

[keterys]

+1 to attack and invigorating powers just give Con temp (plus Stoneblood) instead of Con*2 on hit and Con on miss and non-invigorating don't give temp at all.

 

[keterys]

Started working on an Elf Ranger / Stormwarden / Demigod that is all damage all the time, to see how different that ends up being... which should go a lot faster (one way or another). Figured melee striker better than ranged, since we can't simulate avoiding OAs very well and rogue's CA requirement rules it out for the test.

 

[Truename]

Started working on an Elf Ranger / Stormwarden / Demigod that is all damage all the time, to see how different that ends up being... which should go a lot faster (one way or another). Figured melee striker better than ranged, since we can't simulate avoiding OAs very well and rogue's CA requirement rules it out for the test.

I want to finish the current build (all the way to 30) before starting a brand new one. After that, assuming I'm not sick of it by then, I was planning on adding support for a full 5-on-5 simulation, including support for movement.

 

[Truename]

+1 to attack and invigorating powers just give Con temp (plus Stoneblood) instead of Con*2 on hit and Con on miss and non-invigorating don't give temp at all.

I understood that part. What I meant was, any other changes to the build? Feats and so forth? At-wills?

 

[keterys]

Elf Ranger / Stormwarden / Demigod
Str 16
Con 12
Dex 18
Int 10
Wis 14
Cha 8

Increase Str and Dex at all opportunities

Feats:
1 Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword)
2 Weapon Focus (Heavy Blade)
4 Lethal Hunter
6 Predatory Action
8 Two-Weapon Fighting
10 Two-Weapon Defense
11 Lasting Frost
Retrain Two-Weapon Defense to Wintertouched
12 Bloodthirst
14 Hunter's Advantage
16 Devastating Critical
18 Bleeding Precision
20 Two-Weapon Defense
21 Heavy Blade Mastery
Retrain Two-Weapon Defense to Triumphant Attack
22 Prime Hunter
24 Correcting Aim
26 Martial Mastery
28 Epic Resurgence
30 Two-Weapon Defense

At-Will: Twin-Strike

Encounter:
1 Off-Hand Strike
3 Disruptive Strike
7 Ruffling Sting
11 Clearing the Ground (use only against multiple enemies)
13 NONE
17 Untamed Outburst (Replace Off-Hand Strike)
23 Blade Ward (Replace Untamed Outburst)
27 Death Rend (Replace Ruffling Sting)

Daily:
1 Jaws of the Wolf
5 Frenzied Skirmish
9 Attacks on the Run
15 Steeling Flurry (Replace Frenzied Skirmish)
19 Cruel Cage of Steel (Replace Steeling Flurry)
20 Cold Steel Hurricane
25 Tiger's Reflex (Replace Jaw's of the Wolf)
29 Follow-up Blow (Replace Attacks on the Run)

Utility:
2 Hunter's Privilege
6 Unbalancing Parry
10 Yield Ground
12 Throw Caution to the Wind
16 Evade the Blow
22 Master of the Hunt
26 Divine Regeneration

Basic:
2 Bastard Swords
Hide Armor

Magic Items
1: +1 Vicious Bastard Sword
2: +1 Vicious Bastard Sword
3: Belt of Vigor (Heroic)
4: Iron Armbands of Power
5: +2 Vicious Bastard Sword
6: +2 Frost Bastard Sword
7: Boots of the Fencing Master
8: +2 Hide Armor of Durability
9: +2 Collar of Recovery
10: Strikebacks
11: +3 Frost Bastard Sword
12: +3 Frost Bastard Sword
13: +3 Hide Armor of Durability
14: Iron Armbands of Power (Paragon)
15: Solitaire (Aquamarine)
16: +4 Frost Bastard Sword
17: +4 Frost Bastard Sword
18: Gauntlets of Destruction
19: +4 Brooch of Vitality
20: +4 Hide Armor of Durability
21: +5 Frost Bastard Sword
22: +5 Frost Bastard Sword
23: Ring of Regeneration
24: Iron Armbands of Power (Epic)
25: Iron of Spite (Epic)
26: +6 Frost Bastard Sword
27: +6 Frost Bastard Sword
28: +6 Hide Armor of Durability
29: Shadow Band
30: +6 Brooch of Vitality


Should get pretty torn up solo, do much better when grouped.

 

[keterys]

I understood that part. What I meant was, any other changes to the build? Feats and so forth? At-wills?

Not enough that I'd worry about it. It doesn't have any battlerager specific powers - it does get a bit less out of invigorating powers (especially out of missing, since in theory the battlerager can miss with crushing surge to get a bunch of temp _and_ do damage with hammer rhythm), but it's still fine enough.

 

[Truename]

I've switched Ragnarok from a Battlerager Vigor build to a One-Handed Weapon Talent build. This made Dwarf Stoneblood illegal (it requires Battlerager Vigor), so I replaced DS with Improved Vigor. Alternatives welcome.

Here's a level-by-level comparison of the changes. The left-hand column is the old build and the right-hand column is the new build. The central column is a run I did before realizing that I had to replace Stoneblood; I included it in case anyone was interested in the effect it had.

          Battlerager        1H w/ Stoneblood   1H w/ Improved Vigor
Level  1: 48.8% +/- 3.1%     24.5% +/- 2.7%     22.9% +/- 2.6%
Level  2: 85.3% +/- 2.2%     65.5% +/- 2.9%     60.7% +/- 3.0%
Level  3: 69.8% +/- 2.8%     43.5% +/- 3.1%     42.3% +/- 3.1%
Level  4: 77.9% +/- 2.6%     59.6% +/- 3.0%     57.5% +/- 3.1%
Level  5: 66.5% +/- 2.9%     48.2% +/- 3.1%     45.8% +/- 3.1%
Level  6: 96.7% +/- 1.1%     90.4% +/- 1.8%     88.3% +/- 2.0%
Level  7: 92.6% +/- 1.6%     85.0% +/- 2.2%     84.8% +/- 2.2%
Level  8: 99.7% +/- 0.3%     97.1% +/- 1.0%     96.9% +/- 1.1%
Level  9: 98.6% +/- 0.7%     92.3% +/- 1.7%     92.6% +/- 1.6%
Level 10: 99.5% +/- 0.4%     96.4% +/- 1.2%     96.1% +/- 1.2%

I've finished the Level 11 runs and will post them shortly.