Monte Cook's Design Thoughts On Spellcasters

[Mercule]

I agree with Monte's evaluation of the problem. I disagree with his solution. I really like the Warlock but, as someone else said, it's a special case.

Having had similar thoughts, I've headed down a slightly different path. It's rocky and fraught with peril, but bear with me. Part of the issue is also to balance the desires of people who like the resource management vs. those who are willing to pay a premium for flexibility.

Start off with a skill-based mechanic of a roll vs. a spell-level dependant DC. That's pretty straight-forward, other than figuring out what the base DC and the level progression are. This should be low enough so that it isn't too frustrating, but high enough so that the casters don't dominate the game.

But, what about players/groups that like the resource management angle or who are willing to give up some flexibility to get reliability? Let them hang/prepare their spells. The premise is pretty simple: cast the spell in the morning and leave just the "final word" unspoken until needed (which is pretty much the theory behind current spell prep, anyway). The mechanic is to let the mage make the roll in the morning, or whenever he has the time, then he can release the spell on command, and it's ready to go, just like a prepped spell works currently.

The balance factor? Each hung spell ups the DC of all casting. This functions as both a mechanism to (reasonably, in game) limit the number of hung spells and as a trade-off between the two methods.

To maintain the "bookworm" feel of wizards, give them a bonus on the skill roll to cast/hang a spell if they have their book handy. For ease of play, the number of hung spells could be simplified to a table similar to the current "Spells per Day" with some assumptions (take ten on the skill check).

 

[Chaldfont]

I think an option lke that would make high level casters more playable. If we had casters with a bunch of always on magical abilties and a reduced number of relatively potent spells, the process of making those huge "spell prepared" lists would be much more easier. Suppose a wizard´s spells per day wouldn´t increase past, say, level 6. He´d have 6-8 prepared spells, and a number of magical abilities that would cover those virtually always on defensive and offensive spells; a high level sorcerer, for example, has so many slots that the number of Magic Missile and Mage Armor spells he can cast is, for almost all practical pruposes, unlimited.

Nice. This is cool. It's even more Vance-ish. Even those uber wizards could only carry a few spells in their head. In addition, it solves another high-level annoyance: figuring spells for high level spellcasters. You can't do that on the fly--you have to just fake it. And I totally agree that a spellcaster is really only concerned with his highest level or two of spells. Who cares about sleep once all your foes are completely immune?

What about this: When a wizard becomes even more powerful and skilled, what once had to be meticulously prepared as a spell becomes a spell-like ability. I think there are Feats or PrC abilities that do this already. But make it a core ability. Who cares if a 15th level Wizard can cast unlimited sleep spells? Some of the more popular low-level spells might have to be tweaked to fit this, though.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Yeah, unlimited charm person might be problematic, but there's plenty of spells, like magic missile or shocking grasp that could certainly be put on a spell-like ability list.

I know Monte's too busy to take a crack at this currently, but I'd be very interested in seeing a write-up that took this idea and ran with it.

 

[Vanye]

True, and I understand that. My argument is that even when they can afford wands and scrolls to keep up with non-casters, that it's not an ideal situation.

Esp. since wands and the like are consumable resources. You've shelled out 11k for that wand of (for example) Ice Storm. Yet, unlike a fighters +1 shocking sword, which he shelled out 8k+ for, you don't have unlimited use of the wand.

Possibly that indicates that support items need to be changed, not spellcasters..

Hrm.

 

[TheBladeOfEilistraee]

Yeah, unlimited charm person might be problematic, but there's plenty of spells, like magic missile or shocking grasp that could certainly be put on a spell-like ability list.

The shocking grasp part seems more "natural" as far as spell-like abilities go...But Magic Missle, at least to me, doesn't fit into the spell-like abilities. It's much more suited as a "true spell" as it could serve as a backup offensive spell on many occasions.

 

[Lanefan]

What about this: When a wizard becomes even more powerful and skilled, what once had to be meticulously prepared as a spell becomes a spell-like ability. I think there are Feats or PrC abilities that do this already. But make it a core ability. Who cares if a 15th level Wizard can cast unlimited sleep spells? Some of the more popular low-level spells might have to be tweaked to fit this, though.

We already do this in our 1e-based game. You're considered "wild-card" on any spells 2 levels lower than the highest you can cast...thus, if you're a 9th-level Wizard able to cast 5th-level spells, you're wild-card on 3rd-level spells and lower; the rationale being you already know these spells inside out and don't need to specifically prepare them. You're still limited in how many you can cast per day, though...it's not like an at-will ability as some here are suggesting.

Cuts down on the amount of time players spend on spell-assignment, too.

Lanefan

 

[Plane Sailing]

I think that base D&D *expects* wizards and sorcerers to have wands and staffs to support them when they don't have spells (or don't want to cast them). I know that my sorcerer managed to acquire a staff of fire at 8th level and uses it profligately, and it still has charges left at 12th level! Burning through 50 charges on a wand takes quite a lot of encounters in my experience.

I've yet to see a wizard of higher than 5th level ever get reduced to using a crossbow.

Cheers

 

[ruleslawyer]

I'm strongly reminded of Monte's AE witch - limited spell choice with a number of "witchery" powers to choose from.

Or, more to the point, the Iron Heroes arcanist, which is *exactly* along these lines. The arcanist's aspect of power abilities are always on (requiring only a Concentration check to use), while its spells are dependent upon a limited number of mana points and entail some danger to cast.

I agree with Monte 100%; I agree with some of the dissenters, but I can't find it in me to agree with those who think that having some always-on powers combined with some disposable powers would be overpowering or somehow contradict the fantasy genre. For one thing, it's all about how you balance things; the warlock is hardly an overpowered class despite its ability to throw potentially unlimited numbers of effects. For another, the idea of a daily limit on spellcasting isn't exactly common precedent in fantasy fiction. The problem with the daily limit, IMHO, isn't that it encourages more frugal spellcasting (that certainly has precedents in lots of fantasy fiction, from Gandalf to Sparrowhawk onward), but that it can encourage profligate spellcasting according to the hypothetical scenario that Monte posed (spellcasters throw all their spells in one or two encounters and then force the party to rest). I've certainly encountered this problem with spellcasters in all three editions of the game; spells like rope trick, magnificent mansion, plane shift (and, worse still, the 1e tempus fugit) just exacerbated it.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

I never thought magic users were weak in AD&D. The sleep spell made the mu the king of the party. Well, that and a dagger. Plus, he was the most versatile character at low levels. Can't get past that door? I'll cast knock tomorrow. Need to climb that sheer cliff. Spiderclimb. Want to win the county arm wrestling championship? Strength spell. The prom queen won't give you the time of day? Charm person. Your parents won't let you meet said prom queen for a date? Cast Invisibility and sneak out.

A low level wizard is limited only by his imagination. Magic users needed no beefing up.

 

[pawsplay]

I agree with Monte 100%; I agree with some of the dissenters, but I can't find it in me to agree with those who think that having some always-on powers combined with some disposable powers would be overpowering or somehow contradict the fantasy genre.

You end up with Doctor Strange. In fantasy, spells are typically effortful, and often involve ritual preparations. A world in which a wizard simply floats around everywhere, can literally sit and shoot flame from his hands all day, and so forth is a world in which magic is a) not rare, and b) not pseudo-technological. What you end up with is a superheroic scenario, where magic is better than any other method at virtually anything, and carries little inherest costs or dangers.

For one thing, it's all about how you balance things; the warlock is hardly an overpowered class despite its ability to throw potentially unlimited numbers of effects.

The warlock is probably balanced fairly well. However, the warlock is based on being imbued with terrible powers and using them the way magical creatures use their natural abilities. The warlock is raw power and raw chaos.