Monte Cook's Design Thoughts On Spellcasters

[Gentlegamer]

Thinking out loud:

I think Monte's idea about "disciplines" could go even further and become a systematization of the magic system. Spells could become feats and skills for spellcasting classes. Although, this would probably be similar to psionic/mental powers and require some kind of "mana" attribute to keep track of. I think some interesting things could be done in a system like that as there could be basic magic skills with thorough descriptions of what can be done with each with corresponding DC for different effects, similar to the current skill system.

 

[Kesh]

That would be True20.

Monte's idea is more of a modification of the current one: keep Vancian magic, but reduce the number of spells & replace some of them with 'always available' effects in the form of Disciplines.

I may have to take some time this weekend to work on this. I think I could do something with the 'arcane focus' idea I mentioned earlier. I'd say shocking grasp at will by expending focus would be useful, and not overpowered (as you'd have to regain focus to use it again).

 

[Brian Gibbons]

Monte's comments struck me as similar to the line of thought that must have led to the Binder from Tome of Magic.

Essentially, each vestige gives the Binder a set of abilities, some of which are always-on, some of which are usable every 5 rounds (i.e., once in a short combat, twice in a major combat).

I see both the Binder and the Warlock as experiments by WOTC R&D to shift the paradigm of what a spellcaster should be.

In 4th Edition, it would not surprise me to see spellcasters shift to something closer to this system, where instead of "Cast X spells each day, then you're done", it's more of a "Cast spells all day long, though you may be able to use some spells only once per encounter" systems.

 

[taliesin15]

One critique I would forward is what to do with Clerics who essentially usually serve as the party hit point healer. Not sure what (or how) it would be tweaked there.

I've played some other systems that allow for magical energy to flow back throughout the day--obviously resting made it return faster, but to some extent wizards could gain some magical energy back gradually and not run out of spells so fast. These systems usually didn't limit how many of what level spells you used, it was all a kind of point system.

Several have mentioned the Vancian paradigm, and if anything, I think that should be emphasized more. Some of those spells are just bizarre. I think more weird spells should be promoted. I love to go to Chris Pounds' site http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~pound/dyingearth.html to consider all those bizarre random spells and how to implement them in the game. 'Course I tend to make my campaigns more magic-oriented than most.

 

[Felon]

The 8-hours rest requirement has always been a lousy recharge mechanic. As stated, characters can either rest with a snap of their fingers and move one (which makes resting meaningless), or they can't rest at all due to external constraints, in which case they're hosed. The DM pretty much has to include a rest stop every few encounters, even when it makes no sense whatsoever. I'm running Sons of Gruumsh, and I very much doubt the 4th-level party will be able to clear out the entirety of Xul' Jarak in a single outing, yet the plot intimates that they must.

And on top of all that, it's just not very heroic. Heroes should be able to push on.

 

[Pierson_Lowgal]

This discussion reminds me of the changes in the Final Fantasy games. [My knowledge of the games stretches from FF1 to FF9.] In Final Fantasy I, it was really inconvenient to regenerate spells and the low level spells became pretty useless so you had to really save up for the boss fights. Later Final Fantasy games increased mana regeneration and you get a lot more spells being flung around, which, if I were playing only the caster, would be more fun.

I think Monte's idea is very interesting. I don't like the idea that the wizard class is reserved for expert players. Some people never become expert players, they just aren't very interested in tactics and min-maxing performance. I think a safety net of some weak powers would help these kinds of players and more importantly make play more fun - and that's what its all about.

I'd be interested to hear the results would be of granting a party wizard unlimited "eldritch blasts" -- a ranged touch that does d4 / 2 caster levels up to 5d4, no save, SR yes--and removed one spell of each level from the wizard's daily allotment, or some such.

 

[pawsplay]

I think the ability to work miracles with a snap of the fingers is too important to fantasy to idiot-proof. Spells should be powerful, and they should be tricky to work with.

 

[green slime]

I think Monty is missing the mark here. Low level characters do not stop and rest because the wizard has run out of spells. The low level wizard can still fire a xbow, and be reseasonably effective, as well as contributing with skills. The low level party stops when injured and the cleric has run out of spells, because character death emerges as a high possibility. Low level characters cannot afford the curing items.

 

[DarkKestral]

I think Monty is missing the mark here. Low level characters do not stop and rest because the wizard has run out of spells. The low level wizard can still fire a xbow, and be reseasonably effective, as well as contributing with skills. The low level party stops when injured and the cleric has run out of spells, because character death emerges as a high possibility. Low level characters cannot afford the curing items.

Regardless of that, mid-to-high level play for many certainly works out the way it was described in Monte's article. Things like Rope Trick and the 8-hour rest period are game-breaking for certain types of campaigns. Use of "Time-limited" play starts making players feel that the DM is being adversarial, but "Time-unlimited" can make balancing intra-party power difficult to impossible. Furthermore, a system such as what Monte described is actually beneficial to the low-leveled caster whose concept is the blast-y mage (he can now blast away with his 'magic' 24/7, if he so wishes, and do some kind of damage, even if it's not necessarily as good as when he spends a spell on it.) while toning down the upper-level casters, as the DM can more legitimately say that the party individually has class resources available to them if he/she needs to have more than 3-4 combat encounters per 'day' for story reasons.

 

[Someone]

One critique I would forward is what to do with Clerics who essentially usually serve as the party hit point healer. Not sure what (or how) it would be tweaked there.

Given that is quite normal for even low level parties to buy a wand of cure spells and heal between encounters, clerics could have spells that cure a lot of hit points (to be used in battles) and one ability to heal (or inflict?) small amounts of healing to be used between encounters, perhaps with some limitation like the dragon shaman´s healing aura, that IIRC can only heal up to half your hit points.