Mooks - a good idea?

[interwyrm]

So, here I am, contemplating the next time I dm. I think I might want to try something new - mooks!

Basically, the idea is that I only stat out 'bosses' and 'minibosses'. The majority of foes will be mooks with 1 hp, +0 on all saves, and no damage bonus on attacks. I might give them a higher attack bonus at later levels just so that the players don't totally ignore them.


I have a number of reasons for doing this... one is that I get too attached to npc's that I actually stat all the way up, and when my powergamey players slice and dice them too fast, it's a bit irritating. It's also time consuming to make up a rapsheet for any creature that I throw at them. Also, I feel like players should have the ability to feel like whirlwinds of gooey death sometimes. It may also help to heighten the sense of uncertainty and fear when facing major villains - because they are SO different from the standard fare. Finally, I think it may enhance the 'feel' of the game. For example, the scene in Princess Bride where Inigo Montoya easily cuts down the 5 or so mooks the baron sends after them.

So - have you used mooks in this sense? How did they work out for you? Do you think it's a good idea?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

One hit point is too low, but I think it's an otherwise sound idea. Several other game systems do something similar.

 

[rbingham2000]

I do think this is a pretty damned cool idea.

And I believe that Atlas Games did a writeup on Faceless Hordes in Burning Shaolin that would make for very good reading. They gave them 4 HP and ruled that any hit that did that or more took them immediately out of the fight, while anything less than that was not counted. It fits very well for a cinematic-style sword-and-sorcery game anyway, with different mooks specializing in different weapons and armor.

 

[interwyrm]

One hit point is too low, but I think it's an otherwise sound idea. Several other game systems do something similar.

Why is one hit point too low?

 

[Graf]

Why is one hit point too low?

Because there are a lot of very cheap ways to do a couple points of damage to everything in a wide radius (or even just next to you).

Why bother to attacking when you can have an item or power that does 5 points of fire damage to everything adjacent to you and just –run- through the mooks?

You want a situation where “a solid hit from a PC takes them down” not “weaker than a commoner with a cold”.

 

[interwyrm]

I actually don't see a problem with letting the pc's annihilate the mooks with little difficulty. That's pretty much what they are there for.

What kind of item/power lets you just deal 5 damage to everything next to you as you move anyways?

Here's the sort of situations I'm looking at with 1 hp each...

Magic missile kills 1 per missile.
Fireball kills all in the radius.
Great cleave kills all of the ones standing next to the fighter
Whirlwind attack is somewhat useful.
Each arrow launched from a bow kills one mook each.
Firewall becomes an actual barrier.

Most of those things would be a problem even with say, 5hp each, aside from the magic missile, and maybe the arrows.

Here's the thing though... it's been my experience that ranged fighters end up being less fun to play than melee fighters, because they often do too little damage to make a real difference. With 1hp mooks, even if each arrow only ends up doing 1hp damage, they get the satisfaction of being able to take down 4 or 5 opponents in a round.

They are mooks. They are supposed to die. If it makes sense, some could have a % chance of being just... incapacitated.

Now, if the players end up using 'powers' or 'items' to deal with them en masse, that just means that they have used up some of their resources for the day... and, as the bbeg, isn't that what you want to do - weaken your enemy before you deliver the killing blow?

 

[arwink]

I'm with the folks who disagree with the 1 hp front - mooks should be easy to plow through, but such a low hp total basically ensures that there's no challenge there for the players. You're better off just giving them a breif vignette about how the massacre the assembled horde, then moving on.

The mook rule that I've been toying with for d20 largely involves focing Mook creatures to make a massive damage save every time they take damage. It opens the field to tougher mooks at higher levels, but keeps them fragile enough that even an average stirke by a PC should take them down. I still haven't had a chance to test this in play, though.

 

[Stalker0]

mooks should be easy to plow through, but such a low hp total basically ensures that there's no challenge there for the players.

Um...that's the point of mooks, that's why they are called mooks, If they were a challenge, they would be npcs

I have no problem with the 1 hp idea, cuts out all the bookkeeping. One shot, one kill works just fine for me in this situation.

 

[PapersAndPaychecks]

I don't understand the attraction of a fight that poses no challenge to the party. It's like playing chess with a three-year-old, or trying to beat a computer game on "Sandbox-easy" setting with all the cheat modes enabled... dull.

Is there something I'm missing?

 

[delericho]

The idea of using mooks is fine.

However, I'm curious why you don't just spend the ten minutes to stat up a generic 1st level human warrior and use those stats for the mooks? This then has the advantages that they pose a (slightly) greater challenge to the PCs than you'd indicated, and they have a 'real' set of stats, which makes assigning XP easier (and might also be beneficial if you have a player who is a stickler for accuracy).