More attacks, or more damage...

[Herzog]

I'm currently running a Barbarian 1(Lion Totem)/Scout 4/Ranger 4/Tempest 1 character, and I'm looking for advice on my next levels.

Important campaign info: Low Magic, Human only, No Bo9S.

If I take two more levels of Tempest, I get an extra attack at lvl 12, and I can take Greater Two Weapon Fighting, bringing my total number of attacks to 6, at +16/+16/+11/+11/+6/+6
(Note: I could be one or two points off. Too many variables. aargh.)
My Lion Totem Barbarian level gives me Pounce, so I can do a full attack on a charge.
My skirmish dmg is +4d6 when I move at least 20 ft due to improved skirmish.

All in all, including weapon damage (handaxe and short sword), and ignoring the fact I could be missing those attacks, and would need to charge each round, I could be doing 30d6 dmg per round.

If I take two more levels of Scout, I get Flawless stride at lvl 12, and an extra d6 skirmish dmg at lvl 11.

My attack rolls would be two points lower (one for missing out on ambidex from tempest, one for missing out on 1 bab increase), but my skirmish per attack would be higher, for a total of 24d6 dmg, from four attacks instead of 6 (with the chance of the last two attacks for the tempest build hitting is slim at best)

Which of the two build options would you suggest, and why?

 

[Dandu]

As you noted yourself, you could be one or two points off on the AB from the first build, which makes it hard to say...

 

[Herzog]

Ok, for reference, breakdown of the attack bonus for the Tempest build:

lvl 12
Bab +11/+6/+1
Weapon Finesse->Dex bonus on attacks->+4
Charge->+2
TWF(Ambidex)->-1
masterwork weapons->+1

makes +17/+17/+12/+12/+7/+7
for 5d6+1/5d6/5d5+1/5d6/5d6+1/5d6 dmg

And the same, but for the Scout build:
Bab +10/+5
Weapon Finesse->Dex bonus on attacks->+4
Charge->+2
TWF->-2
masterwork weapons->+1

makes +15/+15/+10/+10
for 6d6+1/6d6/6d6+1/6d6 dmg.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I'm assuming you have the Swift Hunter feat, correct me if not. Why not just take 2 more levels in Ranger? Full BAB, skirmish progression, new favored enemy that you can always skirmish even if crit immune, ITWF feat (if your DM is nice and lets you retrain the iteration you already have), probably another spell/day... Seems like the best option to me.

 

[Herzog]

I have indeed taken the Swift Hunter feat

The Favored Enemy I would also get from two lvls of scout, and the Evasion and Flawless stride from the scout seemed more interesting than the Improved Combat Style (granting me a feat I already had)

retraining would be possible, but restricted, since I took ITWF using the

​

Champion of the Wild alternate class feature from Complete Champion.
(which also means:no spellcasting)

and for the record: I switched out my animal compaion for Distracting Strike from PH2...

 

[shadyizok]

Ok, for reference, breakdown of the attack bonus for the Tempest build:

lvl 12
Bab +11/+6/+1
Weapon Finesse->Dex bonus on attacks->+4
Charge->+2
TWF(Ambidex)->-1
masterwork weapons->+1

makes +17/+17/+12/+12/+7/+7
for 5d6+1/5d6/5d5+1/5d6/5d6+1/5d6 dmg

And the same, but for the Scout build:
Bab +10/+5
Weapon Finesse->Dex bonus on attacks->+4
Charge->+2
TWF->-2
masterwork weapons->+1

makes +15/+15/+10/+10
for 6d6+1/6d6/6d6+1/6d6 dmg.

Well let's have a look.
A CR12 creature has averagely: 184HP and 24AC.
Tempest build hits on: 7/7/12/12/17/17 meaning you hit 2.4 times. Average damage per hit is 18 so that makes 43.2 damage. Meaning it would take 4.3 turns to kill it.
Scout build hits on +9/+9/+14/+14 meaning you hit 1.7 times. Average damage per hit is 21.5 so that makes 36.6 damage. Meaning it would take 5 turns to kill it.

So basicly the scout build is a little weaker pure statcombatwise however the evasion and flawless stride might make up for that.

 

[udalrich]

And since not all creatures have average AC:

+1 to AC means that the tempest build gets 0.3 fewer hits (5% * 6 attacks), or a decrease in damage of 18 * 0.3 = -5.4 damage.

+1 to AC means that the scout build gets 0.2 fewer hits (5% * 4 attacks), or a decrease in damage of 21.5 * 0.2 = -4.3 damage.

If you are attacking creatures with below average AC, the tempest build is even better, since it gains more damage (mainly as the third iterative attacks become more reliable).

If you are attack creatures with above average AC, the scout build starts to improve, since the attacks that do land do more damage. However, once you get to +3 AC, the third iterative attacks stop getting worse, as they only hit on a natural 20, so the tempest damage changes to 18*0.2 = -3.6/AC. Consequently, the scout will not catch up to the tempest in damage until the AC of the target gets close to the "why am I bothering" range.

 

[Dross]

Something from left field:
I have a (well deserved) reputation for rolling badly in combat, so more + to hit would be good for me because not hitting means no damage.

So... how often are you hitting in combat, especially with your iterative attacks? If the answer is "most of the time to a lot" more damage might be of more use. If not, getting more + on your to hit would be better.