More from Mearls' blog re: NPC Creation

[Dragonblade]

I HATE statting NPCs in 3.5. Its a pain. So much so that I only DM published modules when I DM 3.5 at all.

Speed of NPC creation, especially being able to just get to the target numbers immediately without having to build my way to them, will be so much better in 4e.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Right. Time considerations aside, writing NPCs currently feels like work.

 

[Kraydak]

Kraydak

Are you claiming that statting up NPCs doesn't take a long time - which in my case if demonstrably false. Or that statting up NPCs doesn't take you a long time? In which case, I'll point out that I (and WotC) think you are in a distinct minority who don't feel this is a problem that needs solving.

I am claiming that statting up a *CORE* 3e NPC doesn't take a long time. Note the *CORE*. The assumption of *CORE* removes prestige classes and their prereq lists from the picture, slashes the list of base classes, decimates the feat list, shrinks or decimates (library dependent) the magic item and spell lists and removes a TON of other options. Statting up a core 3e NPC is easy.

4e doesn't have any splatbooks yet. Some are planned, and crunch work has probably been started, but for an early released adventure, you should stick close to the 4e core. So Mearls is claiming that 4e *CORE* NPC generation is fast. I believe him. *IF* he is comparing that to 3e *CORE* NPC generation, he is claiming that the later is slow. I don't believe that. If he is comparing 4e to late-years, large library 3e NPC generation, I don't care. Because I don't know how many options WotC will add in the splat-books. I do know that ze players love their options, and WotC holding a theoretical complexity line is, at best, a mediocre (non-zero until a substantial employee turnover) bet.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I am claiming that statting up a *CORE* 3e NPC doesn't take a long time. Note the *CORE*. The assumption of *CORE* removes prestige classes and their prereq lists from the picture, slashes the list of base classes, decimates the feat list, shrinks or decimates (library dependent) the magic item and spell lists and removes a TON of other options. Statting up a core 3e NPC is easy.

4e doesn't have any splatbooks yet. Some are planned, and crunch work has probably been started, but for an early released adventure, you should stick close to the 4e core. So Mearls is claiming that 4e *CORE* NPC generation is fast. I believe him. *IF* he is comparing that to 3e *CORE* NPC generation, he is claiming that the later is slow. I don't believe that. If he is comparing 4e to late-years, large library 3e NPC generation, I don't care. Because I don't know how many options WotC will add in the splat-books. I do know that ze players love their options, and WotC holding a theoretical complexity line is, at best, a mediocre (non-zero until a substantial employee turnover) bet.

Two questions:
1. Does core 4E have the same number of options as core 3E?
2. Is he only making characters using core rules, or is he also using draft rules for the planned supplements due to come out over the next year as part of the internal playtesting process?

 

[Greg K]

I guess I never noticed the speed problem, because

A) I rarely use multiclassing. I rely on several of the WOTC class variants and a few third party classes to fill common archetypes that, imo, should be playable at first level. Thus, I cut out a lot of multiclassing that is done to fill a number of missing archetypes.

B) I heavily limit the amount of non core material allowing very few new classes, PrCs, feats or spells. I think the only two non-core books used in full are Green Ronin's Shaman and Witch's book.

C) The material I do allow, I place into a house rule document or, in the case of classes and PrCs, make a notation of the book and page number.

D) I don't play past 10th or 12 level.

 

[grimslade]

CORE matters not. It's still a time sinking, unfun waste to stat up NPCs in 3.X.
Using only the big 3 stat up a human Wiz5, advisor to the local lord.
Choose his spells, feats and skills. Take Intimidate cross class because he's a bit of a bully.
Now what Magic items and equipment does he have. Reference the NPC wealth chart. Oh, wait he's a wizard so free Scribe Scroll take that into account.
What effects are up on this NPC? Note duration.
How long does it take? How long to double check your math of the skills? Does he have a Headband of Intellect +2? When did he get it so you can change the skill point total and DCs to spells?
Now I would cheat and whip out Heroforge to tally it all and then double check it. I'm still clocking in at over 20 minutes FOR 1 NPC that may or may not be killed in a single round.
3.X glorifies the minutia of PC building for NPCs. A PC, barring character death will last for level after level. THe NPC is barely a speed bump. Even worse character development happens over time, broken up into nice level advancement chunks. NPCs are done all at once. It is awful for a DM.

I am claiming that statting up a *CORE* 3e NPC doesn't take a long time. Note the *CORE*. The assumption of *CORE* removes prestige classes and their prereq lists from the picture, slashes the list of base classes, decimates the feat list, shrinks or decimates (library dependent) the magic item and spell lists and removes a TON of other options. Statting up a core 3e NPC is easy.

4e doesn't have any splatbooks yet. Some are planned, and crunch work has probably been started, but for an early released adventure, you should stick close to the 4e core. So Mearls is claiming that 4e *CORE* NPC generation is fast. I believe him. *IF* he is comparing that to 3e *CORE* NPC generation, he is claiming that the later is slow. I don't believe that. If he is comparing 4e to late-years, large library 3e NPC generation, I don't care. Because I don't know how many options WotC will add in the splat-books. I do know that ze players love their options, and WotC holding a theoretical complexity line is, at best, a mediocre (non-zero until a substantial employee turnover) bet.

 

[Steely Dan]

The assumption of *CORE* removes prestige classes

The 3.5 DMG contains PrCs.

 

[Simon Marks]

I am claiming that statting up a *CORE* 3e NPC doesn't take a long time. Note the *CORE*.

In my case, this is demonstrably false. I am not a unique case. Apparently, WotC deems me and people like me to be the majority.

Where do we go from here?

 

[Greg K]

The 3.5 DMG contains PrCs.

So does the 3.0 DMG, but buried in the 3.0 text it states that allowing them is purely optional. I don't own the 3.5 DMG. Does it state anywhere in the text about allowing them to be optional?

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

The 3.5 DMG contains PrCs.

Here's a fun one: Spell selection on a Diviner 3/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 8, who gets hit with a lucky Silence spell in round two.