Morpheus and DnD

[SableWyvern]

As far as WotC is concerned, a DM who buys a Player's Handbook and lends it to his players so that they can make characters is even more of a thief than I am (not really true as the SRD exists, replace Player's Handbook by Tome & Blood). Heck, if you want to go that far, you could even say that a DM who buys the FRCS and plays with players who do not have the book is damaging WotC's IP : after all, he uses terms that are trademarked by WotC without their consent.

Copying one of these books so that a player has a copy is illegal. Lending them the actual book is not. It is yours to do with what you will, including giving or selling it to others. Once it is sold, WotC have no claim whatsoever to the physical material that makes up the book, nor who reads it. Only the ideas contained within are theirs, and cannot be distributed in a format other than one allowed by them.

 

[poilbrun]

I fail to see why you quoted my message. I was referring to the difference between piracy and theft, but you're referring to something that sounds like it might be fair use if you own a copy of the book already.

Simply because I thought you were saying that if I make a pdf of a book I own, WotC won't be able to sell the pdf to me if they decide to create an ESD version of the book... I think I have seen a meaning that wasn't in your post, sorry

 

[rounser]

i think you are making a semantic distinction that does not exist...

theft: the crime of stealing (collins cobuild english dictionary)


i fail to see why information should be treated any differently than anything else... IE "Hey, you stole my idea!"

Which is copyright infringement, patent infringement, or plagiarism. Despite the Collins definition, "theft" usually implies loss of physical property, so it's best to get specific about such semantics if you want a meaningful discussion.

In other words, I say define your terms, don't blur them.

EDIT: Silly me, you can't protect "ideas", only specific works like text, images, inventions etc. Still, that's not what's being discussed here either. People pirate works, not ideas.

 

[poilbrun]

Only the ideas contained within are theirs, and cannot be distributed in a format other than one allowed by them.

Then, technically, you cannot do what I explained with the FRCS. I just opened the book, and I do not see any place where it is said that you can use the ideas therein as a DM. Of course, that's absurd, but it's funny to see that. However, if a judge had to make a ruling on this subject, I'm 100% sure he would say that the permission to use the material is implied if not explicitly written.

 

[Harlequin]

...

I essentially agree with 'poilbrun'

Although there are many gray areas in this debate
essentially it all boils down to one thing... choice

When i buy a book i own it, its my book. Same if i go buy
a CD or anything else.

Now what i do with it is my business. No one has the right to tell me to not do what i want with my stuff.

If i choose to share it with people, weather morally, ethically right or wrong or whatever its my decision and my choice to do so...

Thats what the basis of all these file sharing programs are...

Companies can cry and moan and winge about loss of income and copyroght infringement but in the end its tuff

Close down Napster
Morpheus springs up
Kill off Morpheus ...something else will take its place

You cannot force people to stop sharing stuff they own
wether it be thru the internet or face to face...

I could go on about all the OVER CHARGING and INFLATED prices that companies try and get away with. (Isnt that stealing?) but i wont...or have I? who really cares...

If i buy a product...thats my business
If i share that product...thats my business too

So these companies can just SUCK it up and get on with doing what they are good at...screwing over consumers with over inflated prices to very poor quality products...

*Edit*

After reading thru that it seemed a little harsh
The above is a knee jerk reaction to the Record Industry and
the Software (Game Industry) not RPG Companies

Two things i will always spend my money on (weather available for download or not) are Books and Movies (DVD's/Theatre)

They are woirth the bucks

Music and Software games however...read my post above


Harlequin

 

[turtle]

i could care less about anyone's individual story of why they broke copywrite law. I'm much more interested in the mental disconnect that happens. It's like on one hand someone does something that is illegal and on the other hand they believe that they haven't really violated the law. And then they come up with all these reasons that what they did wasn't really bad.

I wonder how this happends

If you think copywrite laws are bad just say "I'm breaking this law because I don't take it seriously and I don't care." The justifications and finger pointing is ridiculous.

 

[SableWyvern]

Then, technically, you cannot do what I explained with the FRCS. I just opened the book, and I do not see any place where it is said that you can use the ideas therein as a DM. Of course, that's absurd, but it's funny to see that. However, if a judge had to make a ruling on this subject, I'm 100% sure he would say that the permission to use the material is implied if not explicitly written.

Keep in mind I am not anything remotely resembling a lawyer.

I think that the general concept that the information in RPG books is designed to be diseminated verbally at a gaming table is far more than implied.

Your understanding of the part of my post that you quoted was probably due to my attempt to be a little more technical than I am capable of being.

What I meant to say was copying a book (electronically or otherwise) and distributing it is illegal. If verbally disseminating the information over the gaming table is illegal, then so is reading a book to your kids.

 

[poilbrun]

i could care less about anyone's individual story of why they broke copywrite law. I'm much more interested in the mental disconnect that happens. It's like on one hand someone does something that is illegal and on the other hand they believe that they haven't really violated the law. And then they come up with all these reasons that what they did wasn't really bad.

I wonder how this happends

If you think copywrite laws are bad just say "I'm breaking this law because I don't take it seriously and I don't care." The justifications and finger pointing is ridiculous.

But I do not believe I am breaking the law. Using a pdf of a book I own is, IMO, a part of the right I get by buying a book. Of course, if I give it to people who didn't pay (WotC, not me! ) for it, then it is illegal.

One thing is funny : I can lend my book to my players even if they don't own it. However, it is illegal to lend them the pdf version.

Originally posted by SableWyvern
Only the ideas contained within are theirs, and cannot be distributed in a format other than one allowed by them.

That would be the reason why I can't lend them the pdf format. Now, what happens to books that are published in pdf? Can I lend the file to a friend?

 

[poilbrun]

What I meant to say was copying a book (electronically or otherwise) and distributing it is illegal. If verbally disseminating the information over the gaming table is illegal, then so is reading a book to your kids.

I know that the example I took is completely absurd! However, nowhere is it written that you can disseminate the content of the book verbally. Let's hope WotC doesn't sue us all!

 

[SableWyvern]

Re: ...

In your favour, you did say this:

After reading thru that it seemed a little harsh
The above is a knee jerk reaction to the Record Industry and
the Software (Game Industry) not RPG Companies

but you appear to be saying here:

If i choose to share it with people, weather morally, ethically right or wrong or whatever its my decision and my choice to do so...

that doing something morally wrong is ok, because it's your choice.

Certainly a very poor defense.