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[Mor's End] OOC: Questions and comments please post here

GladiusNP

First Post
A game for Mor's End

Since the early days of Mor’s End, the sport of hurtling has been a popular and entertaining way to spend an hour, an afternoon, or a day off from work. The City annals record several references to early hurtlers, including one Jase Hurvan, who reputedly

“Hurtled a quilton, on the full, to the top of a cypress tree, which was nigh on sixty feet high, and looped the topmost branch.”

This respected sport is now considerably different from the rather chaotic affairs of those earlier times, where several instances of property damage, injury, and ‘general rowdiness’ were causes for extensive fines.

Hurtling is played between two teams, usually of seven or eleven men each. The object of the game is to hurl a ‘quilton’ (a ring of braided leather) around a pole set upright in the ground. Players may not use their hands, but are equipped with staves, usually called pilins. The quilton is hurled and caught from the pilin, and must be spun on the tip at all times. Players may move with the quilton on the pilin, but must keep it spinning around the staff, and may not drop the staff more than 45 degrees below the vertical.

Passing is usually conducted in two ways. Firstly, the pilin is pulled back, and then whipped forward. This creates a low, quick pass, accurate over short distances. Secondly, the quilton is spun off. This second method is very difficult, but is akin to how a quoit is thrown from around the finger. Experienced hurtlers can send a quilton forward, to either side, and backwards, by varying the speed and direction of their spin. This is usually used to clear the quilton away from the goal, or to send longer passes. It is also the best method of shooting, for the quilton must fall down onto the goalpost from above (in most cases.)

The Quilton, if it falls to ground, is subject to a toss, in which one of the players throws is back over his head towards two other players – one from each team. The two strive to send their staff into the ring (called casting) and gain possession. They still may not drop their sticks too low, and this requires a fair deal of skill. A player who has possession may be ‘canted’ in which the quilton is knocked off by an opponent. This creates a toss, or may lead to a switch in possession, if the quilton remains on the offensive player’s pilin.

The Goalkeeper is allowed to have a hook on one end of his pilin (originally, all pilins did, since it was first played by shepherds using crooks), which he can catch the quilton with. He may remove the quilton from the hooked end to throw with the other, but is still not allowed to touch the quilton with his hand while it is in play. He may no touch a quilton with the hooked end of his pilin if it is moving upwards – something that makes the drop shot especially useful.

Pilins are mainly between 3 and 4 feet in length. One man on each team, the chaser, (who are the usual recipients in a toss) is allowed to use a special eight-foot pilin. They are used to receive very long passes, and attempt to pass to another team member nearby to score. Alternatively, they provide effective defenders, to block out opponents from receiving. Chasers can only pass very weakly (due to their very unwieldy sticks), and so must be closely supported by another player, who passes on the quilton. Some teams don’t even use Chasers – fielding a full side of normal length pilins. Chasers are usually very tall and strong, but not the quickest. Small, fast players tend to have trouble with the longer pilin.

Advanced movements include the drop pass or drop shot (where the quilton is left to fall down the pilin, then flicked off the bottom – a very difficult play), the high cast (where the player leaps onto the back of an opponent and takes the quilton before they do), and the bounce pass (the quilton is passed, but the receiver simply hits it on with a swing from his pilin, sending it to another. This requires a great deal of coordination and timing.)

Penalties are touching the quilton with the hand, lowering the pilin, and dangerous play. Each gives the quilton to the other team. There are seldom set boundary lines or a field of play. Many of the guilds field a side of Hurtlers. There is some talk of setting up a league, but most are content to challenge sides for bragging rights.
 

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Conaill

First Post
Sounds cool, GladiusNP! Although a tad lengthy ;). Did you base this on an existing sport? Basketball perhaps?

For practical purposes, we'd need to know how to deal with magical interference (Mage Hand, anyone? Keep in mind that Detect Magic only lasts 1 minute/level), how the different races may excell in various aspects of the sport, and what the usual size of the playing field is (so the Geography guys can reserve some space).
 

GladiusNP

First Post
Yeah, I was thinking making it a golden goal kind of game due to the difficulty in scoring, but then I figured we'd just leave it up to the teams, who choose the victory conditions (first to a number of goals, most goals scored in two hours, et cetera). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Medieval games weren't too concerned with set times for play. I haven't given the playing fields, since I thought it might vary quite a bit. Even some modern sports (Aussie Rules Football comes to mind) don't have a set field, so I thought 'Hurtling' could be played anywhere with two poles stuck in the ground.

I think we could leave the magic as a plot-hook. Most Hurtlers are just labourers having fun, so any really serious game would be between the two best guilds in a challenge match. Someone is hired to use mage-hand, and general chaos ensues when the cheating side is found out/ wins by a massive margin.

I suppose it's based on lacrosse/horseshoes/Aussie Rules/Basketball. I stole the 'high cast' from marks in Aussie Rules, the general mode of play from basketball, the sticks from lacrosse, and the horseshoes for scoring.

(Edit - add influences)
 
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Conaill

First Post
Ah, two poles! Now that wasn't 100% clear at first. ;)

So far, it's a very nice piece of flavor text. Do you actually want to add in some game mechanics to let PCs participate in this sport? Check DC's, opposed skill rolls, whatever? Otherwise all this beautiful detail is probably going to wind up in a little sidebar that hardly anyone ever looks at, let alone uses...

Tournaments, Fairs, and Taverns might have some nice examples how to design a PC-playable ball game. (Haven't actually read it, but that would be the first place I'd look.)
 

GladiusNP

First Post
Yeah, some kind of Mechanics would be good. I'd be inclined to base it upon a skill most PCs won't have (Profession: Hurtler?) so that it doesn't allow a fighter (if it was based on attack bonus) to automatically be the best Hurtler just because he's 12th level. I suppose Dexterity would make sense for the skill to be based upon.

The problem is, this adds a new skill (of sorts) which is probably not what we want for Mor's End. Alternatively, we could use Jump (Opposed checks to see who leap highest towards the quilton) and other skills as appropriate for other game situations. That may be too rules/ checks intensive. I don't have the Tournaments and Fairs PDF, and also lack a credit card to buy one... Anyone who can give the way this was handled in there? Do they invent a skill?
 

Conaill

First Post
I think it would be OK to have a new skill specifically for this. Plus add in some mechanics for as many existing skills as possible. That will make it possible for the PCs without the hurtling skill to participate in a pick-up game, but they're still likely to lose to the "professional" players.

Optionally, we could develop an "exotic weapon" version of the pilin & quilton. Kinda like an Atlatl (spear thrower) for a Chakram. The actual throwing of the quilton would then be a ranged attack at -4 unless proficient.

Let's see... a quilton thrown with a normal pilin gets a 40' range (instead of 30' for hand-thrown chakram), 50' when thrown with the chaser pilin. In addition, the pilin can be used as a club, or quarterstaff for the chaser version (perhaps even a 10' reach staff?), meaning you can take AoO's with them as if you were holding a melee weapon.

Of course, feats are in far shorter supply than skill points, especially for those Com1's that are likely to be playing the game...

Edit: On second thought, we're probably better off increasing the damage compared to a chakram, rather than increasing the range. We'd probably want the playing field to at least be larger than one range increment...

Also, what's to stop the "chaser" from just walking over to the opposing team's pole and dropping the quilton on? Seems like none of the short-pilin players would be able to prevent him from doing so. Let's just do away with the longer pilin (but keep the hook for the chaser?)
 
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GladiusNP

First Post
Conaill said:
I think it would be OK to have a new skill specifically for this. Plus add in some mechanics for as many existing skills as possible. That will make it possible for the PCs without the hurtling skill to participate in a pick-up game, but they're still likely to lose to the "professional" players.

Also, what's to stop the "chaser" from just walking over to the opposing team's pole and dropping the quilton on? Seems like none of the short-pilin players would be able to prevent him from doing so. Let's just do away with the longer pilin (but keep the hook for the chaser?)

I'd originally envisioned the Chaser as almost unable to 'dribble' if you will, (spin the quilton around his/her pilin), preventing them from doing much more than casting and then passing it down to another player. Remember, it is a ten-foot pole - being held by one end. If they took the quilton right next to the goal, then they could do this, but they aren't that mobile...

If we do go with a new skill, I think the range increments should be much smaller - only 20 ft. or so. Remember, an accurate thrower with a dart (a pretty aerodynamic weapon made for throwing) only has a RI of 20. I'd anticipate the force one could get out of a pilin would be less than that thrown dart (it's a much less natural motion, not too mention more difficult). Here are some ideas for DC's.

Task | DC |
| |
'Dribble' quilton in place | 13 |
Dribble Quilton running | 15 |

Pass Quilton in place | 16 |
Pass Quilton while running | 18 |

Catch Quilton in place | 13 |
Catch Quilton while running | 15 |
Catch Quilton while Jumping | 17 |

Shoot onto goalpost in place| 18 |
Shoot onto goalpost while
running | 20 |

Failure means that the quilton has fallen onto the ground. Roll 1d8 determine which square it falls in, next to the player/object it was cast at, with 1 being too far, and 5 being too short.

Casting uses jump skills, with the higher Jump score getting the first attempt to catch the quilton.

A defender may spoil the opponent's manuever by making an opposed check. Beating the opponent by five means the defender gains possession. Beating the defender by five means the defender is now five feet behind the opponent as he runs ie...

James is trying to pass the Quilton, and Carrie is trying to stop him from doing so. James throws, and Carrie tries to block. James succeeds with a 17, but Carrie gets a 19. Since Carrie beat James, she knocks it to the ground, and they must toss for possession. If Carrie had gotten a 22, she would have intercepted the quilton. If James had gotten a 24, he would have a five foot lead on Carrie (ie, he gets a free five foot step away from her).

Atacks of Opportunity mean a chance to make an opposed role to beat the Quilton's holder's dribble check.

How's that?
 

Conaill

First Post
Looks reasonable, but you still need to add some mechanism for the Chaser. I'd prefer to do away with him altogether, to simplify things.

For the DC table, let's just say "DCs increase by 2 while running, by 4 while jumping". That leaves us with the following:

Dribble Quilton: 13
Pass Quilton: 16
Catch Quilton: 13
Shoot onto goalpost: 18

Seems like it should be easier to catch than to pass, no? Also, don't we want to add in some aiming as well? Passing and shooting at the goalpost should probably be some form of ranged attack. Maybe using grenade-like weapon rules to determine where the quilton goes on a miss.

How do you want movement to happen during the game? Do you want to use the normal combat initiative rules? I'm not sure that's really appropriate for a team sport like this where everyone is moving simultaneously. For one, each player whose turn comes around would probably just run up to the person holding the quilton and try to get posession (is that legal - "stealing" the quilton from someone else's pilin?). Also, you'd have to synchronize passing and catching, etc...
 
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jasper

Rotten DM
Re: New trade item

This is a 10' by 20' rectangle of light woven Watersilk. This silk is only found in the city of Mor's End. This net can keep out normal Fine sized vermin (ie bees, mosquitoes, etc) but because of the FINEST of the waterskilk(and skill of weavers) it can also keep out Diminutive size vermin (Swamp mosquitoes?) if it has been set up correctly.

change str to finest because who cares if can withstand the str of 10 men if mini me change walk thru the holes.
 

jasper

Rotten DM
new spell
Repel insects
first level
1 hr per level
person touch or 5 by 5 by 5 area.
The spell prevents ordinary vermin, insets etc under 1 hit dice from enter an area or person touch.
Can have permancy cast on it.
How this for a brainstrom
 

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