Buddha the DM
Explorer
Is it safe to assume that only the core books are being used? Or can we create our own material for Mor's End?
[Mor's End] OOC: Questions and comments please post here
- Thread starter Krug
- Start date
Only core books, unless it's absolutely necessary. For example, we'll probably need to write up stats for those Argali sheep, and perhaps some novel magical uses for sapphires. But I don't see any reason for any new prestige classes, and there's definitely no need for new feats...
What did you have in mind?
What did you have in mind?
Buddha the DM
Explorer
Nothing at the moment. Had to ask before I went forward with anything.
wizardoftheplains
First Post
Tower of Flumph.
I'm using that right away. lol.
gary
I'm using that right away. lol.
gary
David Argall
First Post
Slavery in the city
Slavery in the city
For a city that was founded by rebellious slaves, …has a distressing amount of slavery [tho there are those that are distressed there is not more]. But the city sits right on a major trade route for slaves and when principle battles profit, gold wins quite often.
Those who objected to slavery did manage to get the city to adopt an extensive set of rights for slaves. These are frequently honored in the breech as the slave demanding his rights faces a court of slaveowners who enforce rules devised by slaverowners and for slaveowners. However, this is not an impossible burden and the courts do not have a year on record when they did not free a slave. Indeed, one time a leading society matron had to flee the city over the outrage caused by her mistreatment of her slaves. [about 1835 in New Orleans for those interested in the case.] This means there are a host of slaves trying to be freed despite the odds and the courts always have at least one such case on the docket.
This does not make the city a good place to be a slave [if there is such a place], but there are a very large number of worse and to the very limited degree a slave can choose, many “choose” to be slaves here.
Sources
Most local slaves are criminals or bankrupts [who are deemed criminal by those they can’t pay]. In either case they are sold into slavery until the fine or debt is paid. Assuming they have someone who will stand security for them or the debt is not large, they can’t be sold out of the city. Those who have little hope of ever paying what they owe frequently are sold in other cities where they have reduced knowledge of the situation and thus reduced ability to escape, and thus a higher price tag.
While slaves from out of town include some criminals, they are generally captured slaves, either from wars or, it is frequently claimed, just kidnapped into slavery. This is illegal of course, but if the slave merchant has his paperwork in order and the victim comes from a city hostile to ….., he faces a uphill battle to recover his freedom, much less get his abductors punished. As strangers, the slaves from out of town have notably less rights and generally get the worst jobs.
Owners
The dwarves often buy the muscular slaves and are in most ways some of the best of owners the slave can “select”. They generally treat the slave as kin, very junior kin to be sure, but still kin. The chief drawback to being owned by a dwarf is that they have very well developed work ethics and have trouble understanding that less robust races are not trying to slack off when they can’t do as much work as the dwarf does without complaint. Many a human who has prided himself on his muscle has ended his 1st day under a dwarf being carried to his bed by his master who has outworked him all day, and who seriously encourages him to get some rest as tomorrow will be a full day instead of this half-day they just put in. While few if any slaves have been worked to death by dwarves, a great many have felt like they would be the 1st.
For those wanting to work their way out of slavery, the silk farms are the best “choice”. This is highly dangerous work, but the slave gets a percentage of the profits. [If he didn’t, he wouldn’t do anything so rash.] Luck is needed, but the silk slave can be free before other slaves can save even a down payment on their freedom. Or he can be a pool of blood and a warm feeling in some monster’s belly…
Silk also offers the best chance of escape, tho the swamps are even more dangerous than the farms. The various humanoids there welcome the escaped slave. The problem is that they frequently welcome them as dinner instead of to dinner. A host of stories are told of the best way to approach the various tribes and get accepted as something besides rations or a slave that wishes he was back in the city. It is certain that none of these are sure-fire, and many are doomed. Still, for those who refuse to stay a slave, the swamp is there, in easy reach of the silk farmer.
For most slaves the city itself is the best “option”. Not only does this allow more contact with those who might help the slave, the very nature of cities gives the slave more options. Simple escape for example. Even in a city of 10,000, one can go for years and never see all the inhabitants of the city. [Seeing 200 people a day would require 500 days and one rapidly starts to repeat.] So a slave can reasonably easily escape from his owner and go to work as a “free” man [a very poorly paid one, which is why his new boss just never seems to realize he is an escaped slave.] He is eventually recaptured, but one is losing coin if the slave is just kept tied up, so he soon has a chance to escape again. Indeed, it is estimated that 10% of all the slaves in the city are escaped from their owners at any given time.
The owner has considerable weapons on his side of course, but this still means he must cut the slave some slack to reduce the urge to flee. This, rather than the laws on the subject, is the source of most slave “rights” in the city.
Because of this, a great many slaves are taken to the farms and estates outside the city, where they have less chance to escape or defy the master. However, they also have less chance to learn valuable skills, or use them in ways profitable to the master, so there are serious limits on this.
Slaves are legally allowed to buy their freedom. The price is generally high and requires years of effort even with luck, but many slaves devote all energy to it and succeed. Families will often pool efforts to free a favored son. This is generally done with the encouragement of the master even tho the coin used to buy their freedom may well be legally his. Most feel the incentive given to the slave to work hard is well worth the technical loss, which would likely be stolen from them anyway.
Slave market
One of the laws of the city forbids the sale of slaves within its walls. As with many other laws, this more makes people feel good than actually does any good. Slaves are exhibited and bargained over anywhere, and then slave and former and future master take the short walk out of the city to the slave market where the deal is officially made.
It does assist the slavers guild, one of the weakest of guilds in many respects, and allows them a cut from every sale. The slavers are poorly thought of, deemed guilty of a variety of crimes, and often justly so if one counts those that are technically legal. They are also absent from the city for long periods gathering merchandise. So it is almost accidental that they can maintain a guild at all.
For those ignorant of what is going on, the mart is a quite cheerful and clean place. The slavers keep it so to keep their stock in prime condition. It is a far healthier place than many of the poor sections of town. However, there are no volunteers to live here as a slave despite this benefit.
All present, whether slave or slaver, are active salesmen. The slave gets a percentage of his sales price [and frequently punishment if he is not sold] and the slavers push a theory that a master who has paid a high price for a slave will hesitate to damage such a valuable asset. So buyers are frequently met with exaggerated claims about how loyal, hard-working and skilled the slave is, with the slave making the wilder claims. [There have been court cases where the master has sued his slave for deception in the sale, but both courts and public opinion are not sympathetic, generally feeling that anyone fooled by his slave is a sucker doomed to lose his coin anyway.]
Prostitution and Rape
The laws forbidding forcing the slave into prostitution or raping her are obeyed surprisingly often. While the lawfuls praise the laws for this, chaotics point out that it is actually not often necessary nor wise to force a slave woman. For many, yielding is quite simply the best choice. Prostitution is a poor choice for the average woman, but the slave woman has few, if any, good choices. Sex is the prime way for the unskilled slave to do well. And women do marry upscale. For the slave, her owner is thus a very attractive partner, in particular when she considers the welfare of her children to be. While the child of a slave, assuming it manages to avoid slavery itself, is generally doomed to the lowest ranks of society, the child of a slaveowner, even if not as well provided for as his legitimate children, is generally set up well. Small wonder that the slaveowner is often actively pursued by the slave rather than having to force her.
And rape is perhaps the prime way to cause one’s valuable property to run away, not to mention gain her sympathy and support. It of course happens even so, but by no means as often as one might expect.
Plot hooks
Something is killing, attacking, and/or robbing the silk farmers. PC must dispose of it.
Silkers need special supplies, expensive because available only from their masters, PC must smuggle some to them.
Something is luring silk slaves into the swamps. PC to investigate
Slave needs proof he was not legally slaved or was not treated legally. PC to find.
Criminals destined for slavery escape. PC must recapture without harming them. The criminals are not so restrained.
Slaves are missing. Escaped or captured?
Slavers suspected of kidnapping. PC to investigate and free prisoner.
Someone has stolen the freedom money of slaves.
Slavery in the city
For a city that was founded by rebellious slaves, …has a distressing amount of slavery [tho there are those that are distressed there is not more]. But the city sits right on a major trade route for slaves and when principle battles profit, gold wins quite often.
Those who objected to slavery did manage to get the city to adopt an extensive set of rights for slaves. These are frequently honored in the breech as the slave demanding his rights faces a court of slaveowners who enforce rules devised by slaverowners and for slaveowners. However, this is not an impossible burden and the courts do not have a year on record when they did not free a slave. Indeed, one time a leading society matron had to flee the city over the outrage caused by her mistreatment of her slaves. [about 1835 in New Orleans for those interested in the case.] This means there are a host of slaves trying to be freed despite the odds and the courts always have at least one such case on the docket.
This does not make the city a good place to be a slave [if there is such a place], but there are a very large number of worse and to the very limited degree a slave can choose, many “choose” to be slaves here.
Sources
Most local slaves are criminals or bankrupts [who are deemed criminal by those they can’t pay]. In either case they are sold into slavery until the fine or debt is paid. Assuming they have someone who will stand security for them or the debt is not large, they can’t be sold out of the city. Those who have little hope of ever paying what they owe frequently are sold in other cities where they have reduced knowledge of the situation and thus reduced ability to escape, and thus a higher price tag.
While slaves from out of town include some criminals, they are generally captured slaves, either from wars or, it is frequently claimed, just kidnapped into slavery. This is illegal of course, but if the slave merchant has his paperwork in order and the victim comes from a city hostile to ….., he faces a uphill battle to recover his freedom, much less get his abductors punished. As strangers, the slaves from out of town have notably less rights and generally get the worst jobs.
Owners
The dwarves often buy the muscular slaves and are in most ways some of the best of owners the slave can “select”. They generally treat the slave as kin, very junior kin to be sure, but still kin. The chief drawback to being owned by a dwarf is that they have very well developed work ethics and have trouble understanding that less robust races are not trying to slack off when they can’t do as much work as the dwarf does without complaint. Many a human who has prided himself on his muscle has ended his 1st day under a dwarf being carried to his bed by his master who has outworked him all day, and who seriously encourages him to get some rest as tomorrow will be a full day instead of this half-day they just put in. While few if any slaves have been worked to death by dwarves, a great many have felt like they would be the 1st.
For those wanting to work their way out of slavery, the silk farms are the best “choice”. This is highly dangerous work, but the slave gets a percentage of the profits. [If he didn’t, he wouldn’t do anything so rash.] Luck is needed, but the silk slave can be free before other slaves can save even a down payment on their freedom. Or he can be a pool of blood and a warm feeling in some monster’s belly…
Silk also offers the best chance of escape, tho the swamps are even more dangerous than the farms. The various humanoids there welcome the escaped slave. The problem is that they frequently welcome them as dinner instead of to dinner. A host of stories are told of the best way to approach the various tribes and get accepted as something besides rations or a slave that wishes he was back in the city. It is certain that none of these are sure-fire, and many are doomed. Still, for those who refuse to stay a slave, the swamp is there, in easy reach of the silk farmer.
For most slaves the city itself is the best “option”. Not only does this allow more contact with those who might help the slave, the very nature of cities gives the slave more options. Simple escape for example. Even in a city of 10,000, one can go for years and never see all the inhabitants of the city. [Seeing 200 people a day would require 500 days and one rapidly starts to repeat.] So a slave can reasonably easily escape from his owner and go to work as a “free” man [a very poorly paid one, which is why his new boss just never seems to realize he is an escaped slave.] He is eventually recaptured, but one is losing coin if the slave is just kept tied up, so he soon has a chance to escape again. Indeed, it is estimated that 10% of all the slaves in the city are escaped from their owners at any given time.
The owner has considerable weapons on his side of course, but this still means he must cut the slave some slack to reduce the urge to flee. This, rather than the laws on the subject, is the source of most slave “rights” in the city.
Because of this, a great many slaves are taken to the farms and estates outside the city, where they have less chance to escape or defy the master. However, they also have less chance to learn valuable skills, or use them in ways profitable to the master, so there are serious limits on this.
Slaves are legally allowed to buy their freedom. The price is generally high and requires years of effort even with luck, but many slaves devote all energy to it and succeed. Families will often pool efforts to free a favored son. This is generally done with the encouragement of the master even tho the coin used to buy their freedom may well be legally his. Most feel the incentive given to the slave to work hard is well worth the technical loss, which would likely be stolen from them anyway.
Slave market
One of the laws of the city forbids the sale of slaves within its walls. As with many other laws, this more makes people feel good than actually does any good. Slaves are exhibited and bargained over anywhere, and then slave and former and future master take the short walk out of the city to the slave market where the deal is officially made.
It does assist the slavers guild, one of the weakest of guilds in many respects, and allows them a cut from every sale. The slavers are poorly thought of, deemed guilty of a variety of crimes, and often justly so if one counts those that are technically legal. They are also absent from the city for long periods gathering merchandise. So it is almost accidental that they can maintain a guild at all.
For those ignorant of what is going on, the mart is a quite cheerful and clean place. The slavers keep it so to keep their stock in prime condition. It is a far healthier place than many of the poor sections of town. However, there are no volunteers to live here as a slave despite this benefit.
All present, whether slave or slaver, are active salesmen. The slave gets a percentage of his sales price [and frequently punishment if he is not sold] and the slavers push a theory that a master who has paid a high price for a slave will hesitate to damage such a valuable asset. So buyers are frequently met with exaggerated claims about how loyal, hard-working and skilled the slave is, with the slave making the wilder claims. [There have been court cases where the master has sued his slave for deception in the sale, but both courts and public opinion are not sympathetic, generally feeling that anyone fooled by his slave is a sucker doomed to lose his coin anyway.]
Prostitution and Rape
The laws forbidding forcing the slave into prostitution or raping her are obeyed surprisingly often. While the lawfuls praise the laws for this, chaotics point out that it is actually not often necessary nor wise to force a slave woman. For many, yielding is quite simply the best choice. Prostitution is a poor choice for the average woman, but the slave woman has few, if any, good choices. Sex is the prime way for the unskilled slave to do well. And women do marry upscale. For the slave, her owner is thus a very attractive partner, in particular when she considers the welfare of her children to be. While the child of a slave, assuming it manages to avoid slavery itself, is generally doomed to the lowest ranks of society, the child of a slaveowner, even if not as well provided for as his legitimate children, is generally set up well. Small wonder that the slaveowner is often actively pursued by the slave rather than having to force her.
And rape is perhaps the prime way to cause one’s valuable property to run away, not to mention gain her sympathy and support. It of course happens even so, but by no means as often as one might expect.
Plot hooks
Something is killing, attacking, and/or robbing the silk farmers. PC must dispose of it.
Silkers need special supplies, expensive because available only from their masters, PC must smuggle some to them.
Something is luring silk slaves into the swamps. PC to investigate
Slave needs proof he was not legally slaved or was not treated legally. PC to find.
Criminals destined for slavery escape. PC must recapture without harming them. The criminals are not so restrained.
Slaves are missing. Escaped or captured?
Slavers suspected of kidnapping. PC to investigate and free prisoner.
Someone has stolen the freedom money of slaves.
Re: Slavery in the city
Looks good, but I think it could use a little more explanation...
Looks good, but I think it could use a little more explanation...
Unless I missed it, you don't actually say what those rights are. I know we've discussed various possibilities before, but it's not clear (at least to me) which ones exactly we settled on.David Argall said:
Lots of "choices" and "options" here. I feel we would either have to specify exactly how a slave can affect who he gets sold to and what sort of work he gets to do, or, if that choice is really as limited as you seem to suggest, perhaps it would be better to rephrase these altogether.
Last edited:
David Argall
First Post
slavery points
"you don't actually say what those rights are."
I wasn't sure if we had settled on particular rights and so made the text compatible with whatever decision we make there. However, the rights of slaves is largely an area that is more likely to get in the DM's way than assist. So we need merely put in there are rights and merely detail the obvious ones of not being killed or injured on whim, able to buy their freedom, and in the case of women that they can't be raped [this last largely because we males are lewd creatures who will get distracted if we give them a free hand, and the females get upset if we don't limit it.] Pretty much beyond this, any detailed rights just get in the way of the DM's ability to stick in a plot.
"Lots of "choices" and "options" here. I feel we would either have to specify exactly how a slave can affect who he gets sold to and what sort of work he gets to do, or, if that choice is really as limited as you seem to suggest, perhaps it would be better to rephrase these altogether."
let's see... "[The slave has the theoretical right to dictate who he is bought by, IF he can compensate his owner for the difference in profit from any alternate sale. Since any slave who had that much gold would not be a slave in the 1st place, this right is virtually never exercised. On a more informal level, the slave can avoid the worst masters by dogging the sales pitch. More than one lass has avoided a brothel by "stupidly" saying "2 more treatments and I am free of the clap...Oh, sorry, I wasn't supposed to mention that, was I?" Slave sellers are very poor sports on the subject, so slaves trying this are generally very clever in making sure the slaver does not notice, or are very tolerant of pain. Slave and slaver are more in tune in trying for the superior master. A slave who is open about his skills can generally get a master who will use them, and who will treat the slave better. Overall, the slave has very little control over who buys him, but little does not mean none.]
"you don't actually say what those rights are."
I wasn't sure if we had settled on particular rights and so made the text compatible with whatever decision we make there. However, the rights of slaves is largely an area that is more likely to get in the DM's way than assist. So we need merely put in there are rights and merely detail the obvious ones of not being killed or injured on whim, able to buy their freedom, and in the case of women that they can't be raped [this last largely because we males are lewd creatures who will get distracted if we give them a free hand, and the females get upset if we don't limit it.] Pretty much beyond this, any detailed rights just get in the way of the DM's ability to stick in a plot.
"Lots of "choices" and "options" here. I feel we would either have to specify exactly how a slave can affect who he gets sold to and what sort of work he gets to do, or, if that choice is really as limited as you seem to suggest, perhaps it would be better to rephrase these altogether."
let's see... "[The slave has the theoretical right to dictate who he is bought by, IF he can compensate his owner for the difference in profit from any alternate sale. Since any slave who had that much gold would not be a slave in the 1st place, this right is virtually never exercised. On a more informal level, the slave can avoid the worst masters by dogging the sales pitch. More than one lass has avoided a brothel by "stupidly" saying "2 more treatments and I am free of the clap...Oh, sorry, I wasn't supposed to mention that, was I?" Slave sellers are very poor sports on the subject, so slaves trying this are generally very clever in making sure the slaver does not notice, or are very tolerant of pain. Slave and slaver are more in tune in trying for the superior master. A slave who is open about his skills can generally get a master who will use them, and who will treat the slave better. Overall, the slave has very little control over who buys him, but little does not mean none.]
I think something we could really focus on is which groups use slaves, and what tensions this adds to or causes.
For example, the Landholders in the gentry are unlikely to use slaves. Most of their workers are required to take care of flocks of sheep, and live out on the Moors for most of the year, taking care of valuable stock. Since there aren't lots of these guys, slaves don't save you much money - indeed most escape, costing you lots of money. Not to mention the stock they steal when they take off.
The Silkfishers. Definitely like slaves. Dangerous, menial, unskilled labour. Slaves fit this job description to a 't'. While valuable enough to keep alive, no one will be too upset if a slave gets a nasty sting from a silkfish. Also worth noting that most Silkfishers are elves... which makes an interesting scenario if most slaves are human. Playing this racial angle up even more will make the Glazer's Guild / Silker's Circle antagonism even more pronounced.
The Glittering Brotherhood. No real use for slaves. Most are gnomes anyway, so that works out well. Slaves can be used to mine sapphires, but tend to steal them, be rather bad miners, and its' a job that requires some skill at geology. Leave it to the few, skilled miners who dig up the sapphires. (Or is it the foremen of the clay-pits? Hmmm.....)
The Merchant's Council. Slaves make good porters. Slaves make good dockworkers, so all in all, Slaves and the Merchant's Council work out pretty well - at least for the latter. The Merchant's Council may lobby for even more slaves - they probably gain the most utility out of the institution.
Military. Slaves tend to make trouble. As an institution, fighting slaves never really took hold in Mor's End. As a result, the Watch doesn't like tracking down slaves, the City Guard has to watch the gates for escaping slaves, and the whole institution rather adds to the workload of the entire military. They tolerate it because the city leaders require slavery for their own agendas.
Other guilds will have their own approach, but you get the general idea. Adding slavery to the current city will change very little, though it makes for some interesting politics, adding another issue to polarize the council.
For example, the Landholders in the gentry are unlikely to use slaves. Most of their workers are required to take care of flocks of sheep, and live out on the Moors for most of the year, taking care of valuable stock. Since there aren't lots of these guys, slaves don't save you much money - indeed most escape, costing you lots of money. Not to mention the stock they steal when they take off.
The Silkfishers. Definitely like slaves. Dangerous, menial, unskilled labour. Slaves fit this job description to a 't'. While valuable enough to keep alive, no one will be too upset if a slave gets a nasty sting from a silkfish. Also worth noting that most Silkfishers are elves... which makes an interesting scenario if most slaves are human. Playing this racial angle up even more will make the Glazer's Guild / Silker's Circle antagonism even more pronounced.
The Glittering Brotherhood. No real use for slaves. Most are gnomes anyway, so that works out well. Slaves can be used to mine sapphires, but tend to steal them, be rather bad miners, and its' a job that requires some skill at geology. Leave it to the few, skilled miners who dig up the sapphires. (Or is it the foremen of the clay-pits? Hmmm.....)
The Merchant's Council. Slaves make good porters. Slaves make good dockworkers, so all in all, Slaves and the Merchant's Council work out pretty well - at least for the latter. The Merchant's Council may lobby for even more slaves - they probably gain the most utility out of the institution.
Military. Slaves tend to make trouble. As an institution, fighting slaves never really took hold in Mor's End. As a result, the Watch doesn't like tracking down slaves, the City Guard has to watch the gates for escaping slaves, and the whole institution rather adds to the workload of the entire military. They tolerate it because the city leaders require slavery for their own agendas.
Other guilds will have their own approach, but you get the general idea. Adding slavery to the current city will change very little, though it makes for some interesting politics, adding another issue to polarize the council.
jdavis
First Post
Being that this is a optional section I feel that we don't need to list out rights of slaves, we just need a framework of where they are and who would have them and how they are treated. Knowing that they do have some rights is good enough. I agree with the need to know who would be using them as that adds a lot to what they are doing and where they are at.
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