Most and Least Powerful Skills

[Stalker0]

Basically, I'm trying to create a system where all cross-class skills become class skills. Exclusive skills stay the same.

IF you want more details, here's the link: http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33350.

I'm not wanting to debate the idea, but because of it certain skills have to be tweaked, either by changing the actual skill (last resort), or changing the number of points it takes to buy a rank in the skill (perferred choice).

So what I'd like is a list of about 5 skills that you consider very powerful and almost always gotten, and 5 skills that are very very rarely taken and why? Finally, a benchmark skill, an average skill that can be used as a measuring stick for the others.

Please keep these assumptions in mind when thinking about it:
1) All skills except for exclusive can be used by any class now.
2) Don't consider PrC requirements. That's a seperate issue.
3) Some skills are more powerful than others in different campaigns. But I think most of you have played a fair number of typical and atypical campaigns, and so you know which skills aren't used.
4) No + to skill items. I don't allow them in my game.

Thanks everyone for any replies!!


For my list:
Very used Skills:
Spot, Listen : Probably the most used skills in the game.
Tumble: Its power is extreme for a low skill rank cost.
Spellcraft: Ability to tell other's spell is strong, being able to notice a spell already cast in a room is stronger. And now any class could get it, makes it even better.
Diplomacy: An extrememly powerful skill in RP situations.
Bluff: Its power is very extreme.

Not used often Skills:
Climb, Jump, Swim: These are easily replaced by very low magic items and spells and become useless at high levels.
Intuit Direction: Wilderness lore can often do this one and I never see it used.
Disquise: Another spell that can be easily replaced by some low level magic.

Benchmark Skill: Not really sure about this one. Opinions?

 

[demon_jr]

5 Powerful Skills:

1. Spot
2. Listen
3. Hide
4. Move Silently
5. Search

For the least powerful skills, in my opinion, I think it would deal heavily with the type of campaign you play in and how you actually play the game.

For instance, I would assume the Swim skill would be a "least powerful" skill in a desert type campaign.

Another example is "Diplomacy". My group doesn't use the Diplomacy skill as often as I believe it should be, but I still enjoy the game nonetheless. Many RP situations are rarely resolved through a Diplomacy check. Most of the NPC reactions are pre-determined by the DM, depending on how well you RP the situation. Most of the time, a Diplomacy check is called for during a "tense" moment or if the player wants to make a Diplomacy check. This could be the same for "Bluff" and "Intimidate". Many times, players within my group have been able to bluff and intimidate without rolling a single "Bluff" or "Intimidate" check.

It all depends on how you play your game, in my opinion, to determine how useful a skill would be.

 

[Gaiden]

This post belongs in house rules forum

 

[The Souljourner]

Not true, it's a discussion of the various powerful or not powerful skills. He's not talking about how to change the rules at all.

Most Powerful:

Hide
Move Silently
Listen
Spot
Search

Least Powerful:

I don't know, Diplomacy, only because there's never really an appropriate time to use it in campaigns I've been in.

Knowledge (something other than nature or religion)... yay, you have knowledge (dragons) or something... boo ya. That'll come in handy one time in 100, if that.

However, I looked through the skill list and that was about it... there really aren't that many under powered skills. A few that are quite good, but I don't see any that really need to be tweaked.

-The Souljourner

 

[Dursk Starkfire]

hide is useless at higher levels. almost everything has scent and can find you even if you roll astronomically.
best skills:
1. USE MAGIC
2. tumble
3. spellcraft
4. knowledge (anything)
5. spot

dursk.

 

[Apok]

Top 5 Most Often Used Skills

1. Spot
2. Listen

I think these two are pretty much self-explanatory.

3. Tumble

Given the low DC's for evading AoO's, this skill gets pretty ridiculous after a while. A character who has maxed out this skill & focused on it needs never fear AoO's from movement.

4. Search

Extremely useful for detecting traps or finding hidden goodies.

5. Knowledge

This one may suprise you, but the sheer variety of information one can glean with the proper Knowledge skill can mean the difference between life and death to a party.

Top 5 Least Used Skills

1. Handle Animal

Unless you are a Ranger or Druid, this skill sees no play whatsoever.

2. Intuit Direction

To my knowledge, no player I know has ever taken any ranks in this skill. It really becomes meaningless once Teleportation spells are available.

3. Animal Empathy

Again, unless you're a Ranger or Druid, this one ain't happening.

4. Disguise

As demon_jr said, low and mid-level magic (alter self, change self, and the Polymorph spells) make this skill pretty pointless.

5. Innuendo

Cool concept, never seen it used by an adventuring party.

The rest of the skills, IMO, fall somewhere inbetween. Some are more usefull to certain classes than others (Spellcraft & Concentration come to mind) while some are always nice to have (Bluff & Sense Motive). However, I think this list illustrates the 5 Most Used and Least Used skills that I've seen.

 

[the Jester]

Powerful or exceptionally useful:
Spot
Listen
Hide
Move Silently
Tumble
Spellcraft
Concentration

Weakest:
Intuit Direction
Innuendo
Balance
Appraise
Profession

Average/Benchmark:
Wilderness Lore (except with Track feat)
Ride (except with Mounted Combat feat chain)
Use Rope
Knowledge



I think one problem you may have is that some of the classes need access to the best skills to be balanced against the rest (rogues => tumble, casters => concentration), while others need to not have access or they'll become unbalanced (fighters => tumble, clerics => hide).

 

[bret]

Most powerful:

1. Use Magic Device
Want to use any scroll, wand, or staff in the game? Here is your skill.

2. Tumble
Avoid those Attacks of Opportunity for movement.

3. Escape Artist
Get out of grapples.

4 and 4. Spot and Listen
Have to be able to find those sneaks.

Least powerful:
1. Climb
Once the group gets Fly, they are seldom forced to climb. Too many places where magic replaces this skill.

2. Heal
Too much magic taking the place of this skill.

3. Swim

4. Perform, except when used by a bard

5. Jump

 

[Skullfyre]

1. Climb
Once the group gets Fly, they are seldom forced to climb. Too many places where magic replaces this skill.

Fly is a good way of getting around the climb option.
But depending on the DM,perhaps flying may be a bad choice..
See the movie" Where eagles dare" they did not paradrop in(way too dangerous)so they snuck in(somewhat successful) but then snuck onto the mountain top part of the way up by rail car and climbed the rest.


Perhaps the DM(if he is nasty) may decide that the archers or crossbowmen on the castle located on the mountain top have nasty magic items to attack flying creatures specifically.

Climb would be the only way, unless you choose to teleport to site unseen or burrow up the mountain...

my 2 cents (Canadian) or .37 cents American

 

[Li Shenron]

As seen in my games...

most used:

Listen
Tumble
Concentration
Spellcraft
Heal (low levels only)

least used:

Read Lips
Innuendo
Intuit Direction
Appraise
Forgery