Most overrated "broken" things?
- Thread starter Mort
- Start date
Jefe Bergenstein
Legend
Spiked chain - its the only exotic weapon remotely worth a feat, so therefore its "teh borken". Usually people dont know how attacks of opportunity are resolved (ie, letting them retrip when opponent stands or getting multiple AoO's from mvoement). Lets not forget ignoring melee cover either. Mainly its because fighters arent allowed to have nice things, so anything that looks remotely good on paper must be broken. The spiked chain brokenness is a good litmus test to see if a DM is incompetent or not. If you cant handle some dude possibly tripping your bad guys, just hang up your hat, because the wizard will make you dook your drawers by 5th level.
VoP actually is broken IMO, but for intra party play reasons rather than mechanical ones. It leads to inner party strife where treasure has to be divded equally, lest the guy in rags not get his share to throw at orphans. Also, he cant have money for bribes, flying mounts, etc, so he becomes the party mooch who must be handed something in order to use it (but he cant actually own it). Hes a walking inconvenience at upper levels.
VoP actually is broken IMO, but for intra party play reasons rather than mechanical ones. It leads to inner party strife where treasure has to be divded equally, lest the guy in rags not get his share to throw at orphans. Also, he cant have money for bribes, flying mounts, etc, so he becomes the party mooch who must be handed something in order to use it (but he cant actually own it). Hes a walking inconvenience at upper levels.
cignus_pfaccari said:
Like most "broken" things, they aren't broken in all (or even most) situations - to achieve true "broken-ness" you need a character built specifically to take advantage of it's abilties, and a player who knows when and how to apply it.
I've seen some of the character builds that led to the characterization of spike chains being "broken" - and they can be truly annoying for the DM.
Picture an Enlarged Tripping Chain fighter who covers 50' of terrain (10' square fighter + 20' on each side) with a trip bonus around +12 to +16 (or higher) depending on spells, feats, strength, and magic items. This is without factoring in the Exotic Weapon Master bonuses at higher levels.
Everything becomes more complicated and unless the DM metagames and has all the bad guys prepared to deal with it, fights agains medium or small opponents can indeed become trivial. Not every fight can involve Large 4-legged oppnents
. Even without the tripping factor, they can be very hard to deal with just because of reach and damage output.
Patlin
Explorer
Caliban said:
A shifter variant druid at high levels in the elemental form is 15'x15' with (if I recall corectly, no book here) 15' reach. Trip bonuses are probably higher, too, since BAB isn't a part of trip. About as bad, and without relying on any spells or equipment... and the character is a full caster.
This variant is generally regarded as less powerfull than a normal Druid, too, who I'm sure could accomplish the same type of thing with wildshape.
I remain unimpressed by the spiked chain. In fact, I've played a chain wielder and found the experience a bit boring.
cignus_pfaccari
First Post
Caliban said:Everything becomes more complicated and unless the DM metagames and has all the bad guys prepared to deal with it, fights agains medium or small opponents can indeed become trivial. Not every fight can involve Large 4-legged oppnents
Even without the tripping factor, they can be very hard to deal with just because of reach and damage output.
...what damage output? The spiked chain's multiplier is 20/x2, it's possibly the worst weapon for damage output that the world has yet seen.
Casters will eat the Spiked Chain Wielder alive. Our group's casters certainly did.
Brad
Genuinely broken things: druids, warblades, conjuration spells, abjurant champion PrC, wraithstrike spell being only 2nd-level, scorching ray spell capping at 11th level despite being only 2nd-level, web spell being tough as hell to get out of even if you make your save, Power Attack double damage with two-handed weapons, damn near anything out of Book of Exalted Deeds.
Overrated so-called broken things: Practiced Spellcaster feat, Searing Spell feat, spiked chain, mystic theurge, radiant servant of Pelor, warmages, favored souls, monks. Really can't believe I ever thought monks were broken, so I gotta cut slack to folks who still do.
Overrated so-called broken things: Practiced Spellcaster feat, Searing Spell feat, spiked chain, mystic theurge, radiant servant of Pelor, warmages, favored souls, monks. Really can't believe I ever thought monks were broken, so I gotta cut slack to folks who still do.
Last edited:
Drowbane
First Post
Not broken (IMO): BoED, BoVD, cleric, druid, entangle-spell, gestalt, monks, MT (and clones), orb-spells, power attack, practised spellcaster + wildmage combo (cheesy, yes), psionics, radiant servant of pelor, scorching ray, searing spell-feat, spiked chain, warblade, warlock, web-spell
Broken: arcane thesis, swarm wildshape, wraithstrike
No clue: abjurant champion (prc)
Broken: arcane thesis, swarm wildshape, wraithstrike
No clue: abjurant champion (prc)
Last edited:
I think "damage output" is a reference to all them attacks of opportunity a spiked-chain wielder can make with Combat Reflexes.cignus_pfaccari said:
The whole tripping thing is annoying, but that's more a function of the trip rules than anything the chain really offers. Improved Trip probably shouldn't offer a +4 bonus.
Similar Threads
